The scouts would have continued to follow the trail of death upstream looking for survivors. The Ohio branch of the Mississippi River would take them within miles of Cumorah. The expedition of the scouts of Limhi would have been similar to our Lewis and Clark expedition. Additionally, the scouts were being led by the Lord to pick up the twenty-four gold plates of Ether. Ether set the plates in the place where the Lord would bring the scouts of Limhi Ether The Book of Ether gave the Nephites a record of the people who came before them and was another testament to them of Jesus Christ.
The long trip of the scouts of Limhi was a small price for them to pay for the Book of Ether. In the scenario where the Mississippi is the river Sidon, and the city of Lehi-Nephi is not the original city of Nephi, the expedition of the scouts of King Limhi is not geographically limiting. If the people of King Mosiah 1 st travelled miles in one migration fleeing from the Lamanites, their ancestors before them would probably have been driven over 1, miles from the original city of Nephi in several migrations over the years.
One thing that can be particularly confusing in The Book Of Mormon is that all directional names are relative to the context in which they are given. The same directional names do not always refer to the same geographical locations. For example, in the following verse the land north refers to the land of Zarahemla:.
Now the land south was called Lehi, and the land north was called Mulek, which was after the son of Zedekiah; for the Lord did bring Mulek into the land north, and Lehi into the land south. And it came to pass that I, being eleven years old, was carried by my father into the land southward, even to the land of Zarahemla. Sometimes Bountiful is in the north as in Helaman 1: The same is true with references to seas. Today we sometimes use similar references. People in Florida refer to the Atlantic as the east sea, and the Gulf of Mexico as the west sea.
Those living in Mesoamerica would refer to the Gulf of Mexico as the east sea and the Pacific as the west sea. Directional names in the Book of Mormon are given relative to their position or to the context. Names of the various lands in the Book of Mormon can also be confusing because sometimes the same name will refer to different sized areas.
The concept that the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla are separated by a narrow neck of land is a major misunderstanding of the text. There are only two references to the narrow neck of land:. And it came to pass that Hagoth, he being an exceedingly curious man, therefore he went forth and built him an exceedingly large ship, on the borders of the land Bountiful, by the land Desolation, and launched it forth into the west sea, by the narrow neck which led into the land northward.
And they built a great city by the narrow neck of land, by the place where the sea divides the land. Notice that the narrow neck of land is by the border of the land Bountiful and the land Desolation, which is much further north than the land of Zarahemla and the land of Nephi. Notice also that the Jaredites built a great city by the narrow neck of land, not on it, or above it, or below it. This narrow neck of land, or peninsula, could be anywhere along a coast-line. As the eastern boundary of the land of Bountiful was on the east sea Alma The obvious candidate for the narrow neck of land would be the Delmarva Peninsula, which is only 20 miles wide at the neck and the sea of Chesapeake Bay divides the land for miles.
Hagoth then launched his ships into the sea on the west side of the narrow neck of land, or into Chesapeake Bay of the Atlantic Ocean. The confusion about the narrow neck of land is generated from Alma This verse explains that the land of Nephi all of the Lamanite territory and the land of Zarahemla all of the Nephite territory , together, were nearly surrounded by water, except for a small neck of land on the south of them that led to another land southward.
This verse does not call for a small neck of land between the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla. There is no hourglass shaped territory between the lands of the saga of the Book of Mormon. This small neck of land can only refer to the Isthmus of Panama, and the land northward in this verse is North America, and the land southward is South America. Although there were very likely migrations of Lamanites into South America the text does not mention it. With the above explanations of misconceptions of some of the text of the Book of Mormon, the geography of it becomes clear and simple and fits perfectly into the North American Continent.
With the suggested configuration as a basis there are further signposts in the text that help answer many more questions, such as:. Mormon gave us all the clues we would need to identify the locations he wrote about and to physically verify his work as being accurate. I also hope this explanation can help tie together the truths in the Mesoamerica Theory with the truths in the Heartland Theory. I know I am way out of my league, but I am curious as to what all of you think about this video I recently saw.
There is a lot of discussion about the River Sidon, and I was wondering if anyone had considered that the Mississippi River could be crossed by foot. Would any of you believe it to be possible that Sidon could have been running south to north during the time frame of the Book of Mormon? There is no requirement in the text for the Sidon to be crossed on foot. Ancient Americans were very adept at making dugout canoes if a few hours and Mormon specifically mentioned that the Nephites were a shipping and ship-building people Helaman 3: The Mississippi changed courses many times in flood seasons as it made its way to the sea, but it always flowed to the sea, which was always north to south.
Julia, There are several people with a couple of different ideas who suggest the Mississippi as the Sidon. If you listen to the general arguments, it appears to make a good case. Of course there is the problem of the classic reading of a north flowing river. Others have made cases for other rivers, and many of those proposals have long since been abandoned.
Finding any single feature that seems like it could be made to fit the text is pretty easy. Finding complex interactions with the geography, topography, and archaeology remains much more difficult. For example, there is no archaeological evidence of the population sizes or political and social complexity required by the Book of Mormon among the Hopewell culture that is associated with the Mississippi during Book of Mormon times.
That is a big problem. There are other geographical issues, particularly when the geography of the text meets the history in the text. For example Manti and Bountiful have very specific military functions that they cannot fulfill in a model based on the Mississippi.
The defensive lines along the eastern seaboard are non-sensical in a Mississippi-as-Sidon model. So, yes, there are those who support the Mississippi, but many who do not and I clearly do not. I see the overwhelming weight of evidence against it. While Mormon was writing this abridgement he interjected additional geographical information and gave us a condensed description of the entire geographical area of the Lamanites and the Nephites. I suggest that the chiasmus structure is in the following form:. And thus the Nephites were nearly surrounded by the Lamanites; nevertheless the Nephites had taken possession of all the northern parts of the land bordering on the wilderness, at the head of the river Sidon, from the east to the west, round about on the wilderness side; on the north, even until they came to the land which they called Bountiful.
Thus the land on the northward was called Desolation, and the land on the southward was called Bountiful, it being the wilderness which is filled with all manner of wild animals of every kind, a part of which had come from the land northward for food. And thus the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla [together] were nearly surrounded by water, there being a small neck of land between the land northward [combined lands of Lamanites and Nephites] and the land southward.
In a recent Interpreter article and presentation Stanford Carmack makes a compelling case for the Book of Mormon being translated into Early Modern English of the 16th and 17th Centuries. In August, Captain Fox entered the mouth of the Nelson River to find wood for repairs to his ship and food for his crew. From the head of the River Plate Rio de la Plata the slaves were transported up the river to Patosi in Bolivia to work in the silver mines. As Admiral Hawkins pointed out, the river was too shallow for ocean going vessels, and he equates the mouth of the river with the head of the river.
The Book of Mormon does not record how Mulek, son of King Zedekiah, and his party were able to sail from the Land of Israel to America, but the name of the river Sidon would indicate that Mulek contracted with Phoenicians from the port of Sidon. The head of the Sidon is mentioned five times in the Book of Mormon.
Any hypothesis about what the head of the Sidon is, needs to account for all five references. Two references are in Alma 22 versus 27 and 29 in the description poetic? The head of the Sidon is near the border between the lands of Nephi and Zarahemla. If the mouth of the Mississippi is the head of the river Sidon, then 1.
I am intrigued, but not yet satisfied, with the confluence of the Mississippi and the Ohio. And it does appear between the Hopewell lands to the north and the more primitive Native Americans to the south. And it could be a crossing point. The mouth of the Mississippi in Louisiana seems to fail on all points. I appreciate your in-depth engagement of this issue from the text.
How does the idea of a Phoenician sea captain naming the location on arrival of the Mulekites square with Helaman 6: Directional names in the Book of Mormon are not absolute but are relative to the context in which they are given. In the Helaman 6: The wilderness between the lands was the central plains of Texas, where everyone kept getting lost because there were no landmarks. The continuous hills of grass were like waves on the sea.
It actually runs along the seashore on the south, and the land of Zarahemla on the north. About miles north of the Gulf narrow strip , in the center of Avoyelles Parish, Louisiana, is the archaeological site of Marksville. This site is on the west bank of the Old River, which is about fifteen miles west of the old channel of the Mississippi and meets all the textual requirements of the city of Manti. Crossing the river Sidon with an army did not require a shallows in the river where they could wade across.
Each squad of men could build a dugout canoe or lash together logs of driftwood for a raft in a few hours. These were river and boat people, both the Lamanites and the Nephites. They could cross the river Sidon anywhere. Of course, the best explanation I have seen is that Alma 22 is poetry. The narrow strip of wilderness, between the sea Gulf of Mexico and the land of Zarahemla became infested with Lamanites after the Lamanites destroyed the city of Ammonihah, and took captives from the city of Noah. Zoram and his armies chased them from the west side of the Sidon into this wilderness on the east of Sidon and recovered the captives.
Moroni then drives them all south back into the narrow strip of wilderness and into what is now Florida, and fortifies a line from the Head of the River Sidon to the east sea as is mentioned in Alma However, these lands were not the original lands of the Lamanites, or the Land of Nephi, which was west and south of the Land of Zarahemla. I am sure that Alma Here is my interpretation of these verses:. Following his conversion, King Lamoni sent a proclamation throughout all of his lands giving permission for the sons of Mosiah to preach the gospel. While Mormon was writing this abridgement for us, he interjected additional geographical information.
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In a few verses, Mormon gave us a condensed description of the entire geographical area of the Lamanites and the Nephites. The quotations of the verses below contain my editorial comments in brackets. Mormon then interjects additional geographical comments. And thus the Nephites were nearly surrounded by the Lamanites; nevertheless the Nephites had taken possession of all the northern parts of the land bordering on the wilderness, at the head of the river Sidon, from the east to the west, round about on the wilderness side; on the north, even until they came to the land which they called Bountiful [Atlantic Coastal Plain].
In this context it was a spring head with a spacious desolate field beyond, and where a pathway led along the banks of the river past the tree of life where the river became a deep impassible gulf. Verse 27 mentions the narrow strip of wilderness NSW border between the lands of Nephi and Zarahemla, which is a straight east-west mountain range extending from the east sea to the west sea coast, which I have found correlates best with the Chuacus las Minas mountain range in northern highland Guatemala.
The Usumacinta meets all of the Book of Mormon requirements for the river Sidon, including the locations of Manti and the city land of Zarahemla with required ruins. We can speculate endlessly but will not be able to see the resolution of Book of Mormon geography until we get more focused on objective methodology and scholarship in both Book of Mormon history and applicable archaeology evideneces. The Book of Mormon is history and is as important to understanding the book as Church history sites are to understanding the Doctrine and Covenants in historic context.
An unusual and interesting feature of Poverty Point is the raised concentric rings that comprises the main residential area of the city. The six rings are constructed of raised earth ridges five to six feet high and about two hundred feet apart. Five streets cut through the ridges towards the center point of the city like the spokes of a wheel leading to the hub.
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It is about three quarters of a mile across the diameter of the outer ring. Following an unsuccessful mission to the land northward, Nephi, son of Helaman, returned to his home in Zarahemla. To his dismay he found that the people of his own city had also deteriorated in iniquity. Discouraged, and in agony, he poured out his soul to God in lament upon the tower in his garden.
At Poverty Point, however, most houses had a tower in their garden, or back yard. There was also a street running past the towers that lead to the chief market. The chief market was near the center of town, just up the hill from the port. The largest mound at Poverty Point is constructed in the shape of a bird. The wingspan of the bird is about two football fields long and the length of the bird is somewhat longer. The flat tail of the bird is about as wide as a football field and would have stood two stories above the rings of the city. The tail of the bird faces east, the direction that the door of the Temple would have faced.
On the west half of this temple mound rises an earthen tower another four stories above the flat tail. Archaeologists have determined that this tower was added at a later time to what was originally a flat-topped mound. From the top of this tower one could have looked over the top of the Temple.
The person standing there would also have been visible to anyone surrounding the temple mound. I thought Poverty Point was primarily between and BC. In the construction of ancient mounds, the dirt from which they were made came from pits and trenches dug deep into the soil around them. Every basket of dirt that went into the building of a mound was contaminated with the carbon-bearing particles and pieces of previous ages. Many samples for radiocarbon dating were retrieved by coring and auguring.
With these conditions, deciding which particles are from the date of construction or habitation would be nearly impossible, and at best, subjective. Of course, Ortmann in published what are considered the definitive dates and they tended to move dates earlier than previously believed. The massive complex was pretty much complete by BC.
Mulekites and Nephites are way too late, at least for the main period of construction and occupation. Aside from the sampling problems which I mentioned above, radiocarbon dating of Poverty Point is the only negative for it being the city of Zarahemla. I believe that it meets all of the requirements of the text of the Book of Mormon.
Radiocarbon dating is also problematic for much of the scriptures beginning with the age of the first man, Adam. For example, the marine effect of a universal flood could change the C14 to C12 ratio considerably and increase the apparent age by several thousand years. What may be more significant to America is that volcanic eruptions eject large amounts of carbon of geological origin into the air, which has no detectable C Living plants near extinct volcanoes can have apparent ages of up to 1, years.
What effect did the cataclysmic eruptions at the time of the Savior have on the C14 ratio in America? I am no expert on radiocarbon dating, but what I am suggesting is that the science of it is not perfected to the point where it would overrule the scriptural text. One of my sons lives in Auckland, NZ, where Riverhead is a suburb. We visit there about once a year. There, too, Riverhead is the first place where you can cross the river as it come in from the inlet of the bay. Lehi looked for the source, but instead he saw the head. Sariah, Sam and Nephi were standing there because it was a crossing point; i.
That definition might help the Heartland confluence idea. We need other information to help understand the geography. Even if the head is a crossing and has nothing to do with the source though that is certainly an acceptable meaning , the actual geographic information must provide more context.
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There is another element that may further complicate this issue. The Plates of Nephi were written by Nephi, about 1, years before Mormon wrote about the head of the river Sidon. Mormon said the language had changed over that period of time. There were probably different Nephite words describing the head of the river Lehi saw and the head of the river Sidon. I hesitate to add still another level of complexity to this issue, but Nephi also wrote that Red Sea was a fountain into which ran the river Laman. O that thou mightest be like unto this river, continually running into the fountain of all righteousness!
When I read Mr. Sure enough, Riverhead, NY is a port. After all, 2 of the 5 references to the head of the river Sidon are about armies going there to cross. I could not figure out why armies that could cross the Sidon at some points would consider going to the head to cross in two places. The other 3 references to the head of the Sidon suggest a point on or near the boundary between the greater my word lands of Nephi and Zarahemla. A crossing might also explain the two references Alma Certainly more food for thought.
The reference is Alma And we suppose that they are now at this time in the land of Nephi; it is so if they are not slain. And thus ended the twenty and sixth year. We supposed that we could overpower them; but behold, we were disappointed in this our desire. In the cluster of cities the Lamanites held, Antiparah was near the sea Alma Manti was also by the narrow strip of wilderness that was by the sea Alma He was then in the city of Judea which would have been in the hills above the river on the west side.
A bit of a stretch to say that Antiparah was by the seashore. Helaman wrote that he was marching to appear as if he were heading to the city beyond Antiparah that was by the seashore. JN, thanks for your post, as it added another possible dimension to our understanding. How do you derive from the text that the two are different?
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Based on your comments I see that the head could be a crossing point, but you seem to rule out that the head could be the source of the river. They came to Lehi; Laman and Lemuel did not. The whole dream is a metaphor for making choices; i. Which side do we stay on? It introduces an element of determinism; i. Dictionary definitions are fine, but ultimately words derive their meaning from context and usage. Here, Lehi speaks of a single river. Consequently, I think we should expect Zarahemla to be at a point where it is possible to cross a major river, particular if it is the first crossing point inland from an ocean, sea, bay, or other large body of water—just as it is in the examples I gave.
So Zarahemla is along a river somewhere. Poverty Point is highly unlikely. The population was 33, at the census. The town is on the mouth of the Peconic River, for which the town is named. Looking at Google Earth, it does indeed appear to be located right at the mouth of the river.
This would confirm what Theodore said. Here is what Wikipedia says:. My point is that it appears that in the case of Riverhead NY and NZ that the name was given because both towns are at the mouth or head of body of water. In the city in NZ you can see on Google Earth that the town is indeed situated at the head of the harbor. Neither name seems to support the usage as a crossing point. We know from Nephi that the rod of iron represents the word of God. Ammon also spoke of this gulf.
So, there definitely is a way to cross the gulf, and there appears to be a path or course with a rod of iron word of God. Perhaps a good name for this crossing point, or bridge, is Mercy, allowing us to cross the Gulf of Justice 1 Ne Doctrinally speaking, we must all cross that bridge to gain salvation. However, I am not convinced that the head of the river that Nephi spoke of is that bridge. We see from Riverhead NY and NZ that we cannot really apply the definition that you proposed earlier.
And the dictionary definition also does not support it. But, I do agree that there must be a crossing point somewhere. Towns develop where commerce is possible, usually along a waterway. Look at London, for example. The Thames is too wide until you get to London. Washington DC is the same. Riverhead NY is the same. True, the current boundaries extend along the Peconic river but not all the way to Flanders Bay , but the old downtown was right where that first bridge is.
Same in Riverhead NZ. Your Helaman and Alma citations reinforce the point; i. I suspect that your mind is already set regarding this matter, but I will give it a final go anyway. While I agree that Wikipedia is not a scholarly source, it is at least as good as word of mouth. BTW, do you have any scholarly sources for your opinion? First, that is a difficult task since all waterways need to be crossed in some way bridge, boat, swimming, wading, etc.
So, by your definition, any place a waterway is crossed is a head, although no ancient or modern English dictionary would agree with that definition. However, you will find that this:. The uppermost or furthermost portion of a valley, cave, inlet, etc. The source or headwaters of a river or stream. The part most remote from the mouth or opening into the sea; as the head of a bay, gulf or creek. While the Oxford American dictionary includes these definitions, it says nothing about a crossing point:. I could keep going but there would be no point to it.
But, back to your request: Barrington Head, Nova Scotia, Canada. Now, before I begin, there is a bridge there today, but the place was named Barrington Head long before any bridge existed. First, citing the less-than-scholarly Wikipedia, we read: The land is flat at the head of this bay. It is not however, specifically Barrington Head or Harbor, which is Meustugek.
Archelaus Smith spent the winter in the log house, would be that from the South end of Sherose Island both the eastern and western entrances to the harbor were under observation, and vessels passing through might he hailed and boarded by the isolated settler. Referring to a nearby harbor, we read: Andrews, a Scotch loyalist, was granted a tract of land at the head of Coquewit Harbor. There are many more citations, but these make the point.
Not only is this supported bu the citations, but it also agrees with any English dictionary definition that you can find. In summary, the documentary evidence does not support your statement. As a side note, 1. Interestingly, it is not situated on a river it is about a mile away from the Barrington River. This will be my final response to you on this thread. The head of the River Sidon is spoken of only 5 times in the BoM, and never in proximity to Zarahemla.
So, I am unsure how you got the impression that Theodore, I, or anyone else was arguing that point. Second, You have provided no evidence that the cities named Riverhead were so named because they were a crossing point of the river. That is only your opinion. On the other hand, I have provided evidence, as you requested, that Barrington Head and Springhead were both so named because they were the beginning points of a harbor and spring, respectively. Personal opinions, mine or yours, cannot trump definitional or documentary evidence to the contrary.
So, if you have anything other than your personal opinions or your own interpretation of verses from the Book of Mormon I will be happy to consider them. Otherwise, your opinions remain just that, and are of little value in my work to understand the scriptures. Having said all this, I wish you only peace and not contention. I intend to remain friends while also differing in our understanding. It has been a useful discussion. Poverty Point is about miles north of where the Mississippi flows into the Gulf of Mexico, which is consistent with the text. I forgot to post this is my last response.
Here is what Wikipedia says about its name:. In the back garden of the house was a spring and they named Springhead after that house. I wanted to thank all who participated in the discussion about what a head of a river could mean.
For me, it is pretty clear it could mean the source. And it could mean the mouth. And it could mean a crossing a ford, a bridge, a place where boats can be put in the river on at least one side, if not both, and so on, as well as having terrain on each side of the river conducive to a crossing and also having a manageable current.
And head could mean a place where one type of transport is replaced by another in a military context river heads, rail heads, air heads although rail and air would not be applicable to Book of Mormon. But, the concept of a place where one type of transport is changed to another could. Birkenhead opposite Liverpool is long known as a place of a ferry crossing. Even the example in Nova Scotia fits the idea of the point being narrow enough for a crossing. Of course, the head of a bay or inlet is marked by a river flowing into it and that is often such a place where a crossing could occur. But that is usually consistent with a crossing.
Unfortunately, I think there are those who will refuse to give the idea credence because it threatens their pet model of Book of Mormon lands. Five of those times refer to the Sidon. And I looked to behold from whence it came; and I saw the head thereof a little way off; and at the head thereof I beheld your mother Sariah, and Sam, and Nephi; and they stood as if they knew not whither they should go. And I also beheld a strait and narrow path, which came along by the rod of iron, even to the tree by which I stood; and it also led by the head of the fountain, unto a large and spacious field, as if it had been a world.
And I saw numberless concourses of people, many of whom were pressing forward, that they might obtain the path which led unto the tree by which I stood. And it came to pass that they did come forth, and commence in the path which led to the tree. Or, it would have to make an abrupt turn at least 90 degrees at the mouth of the river.
I agree with your analysis. Brandley makes the point that directions must be understood from the point of reference, not from an overall concept of a map. I fully agree and have noted where this makes a difference in the Mesoamerican directional system. He also suggests that the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla are not separated by a narrow neck of land. That is also a point of agreement. I am not aware of any serious model that attempts to place the narrow neck between those two lands. It is north of Zarahemla. It would, however, force the important part of the Sidon, Zarahemla, and the land of Nephi to be south of the Isthmus of Panama, and thereby absolutely preclude the Mississippi river as the Sidon.
Bountiful is protecting the narrow neck from anyone leaving the land of Zarahemla and going north. If Bountiful were at the small neck of the Delmarva Peninsula, it would certainly do that, but only if the Book of Mormon took place only in that Peninsula. If the rest of the Book of Mormon took place closer to the Mississippi, then a Bountiful near the Delmarva Peninsula has not possibility of controlling northerly movement along the Mississippi. So while the point that there is no narrow neck between the land of Nephi and the land of Zarahemla is correct, the specifics presented cannot fit with either the geography or the human reasons given for the building of cities along the east coast in the Book of Mormon.
It does not force anything in the Book of Mormon to be south of the small neck of land. The text does not mention anything pertaining to this land southward in Alma I think it is another misconception. The narrow pass is also not the same as the narrow neck of land even though they are in the same vicinity.
Both of them are at the north end of the land of Bountiful, not the land of Zarahemla. From the Alabama River in the south there are no river valley passes through the Blue Ridge Mountains for miles to the north. About fifty miles northwest of Washington D. In 68 BC, a Nephite by the name of Morianton, head of the city of Morianton, attempted to conquer the people of the land of Lehi. Both cities were by the east sea in the land of Bountiful.
The people of the land of Lehi fled to the camp of Moroni near the city of Bountiful and plead for assistance. Mormon described a narrow pass which led from the sea into the land northward, which was the land of Desolation. This pass was near a place where there was a sea on the west and a sea on the east. Fifty miles from the corridor through the Blue Ridge Mountains, the Potomac flows into the Atlantic across the bay from the Delmarva Peninsula that has a sea on the west, and a sea on the east.
It was near here where Teancum slew Morianton, defeated his army and took them all as prisoners back to the camp of Moroni Alma This narrow pass was a strategic place at that time, and it was in our day as well. Control of the pass changed hands eight times during the course of the war. The city of Lehi-Nephi is [not] the original city of Nephi. The first part of his argument is that the city of Nephi and the city of Lehi-Nephi are not the same. I would agree with him. There is nothing in the text that requires them to be the same, and the logic of the situation would seem to preclude them being the same.
However, that does not necessarily lead to his conclusion: The city of Lehi-Nephi is created for the people of Zeniff who returned to the land of Nephi and presumably to the city of Nephi. They were given a land where one of the cities was Lehi-Nephi. It would be very unusual for the Lamanites who had their seat of power in the former city of Nephi to abandon the city and give it over to the people of Zeniff.
It makes more historical sense for them to be given a place in the lands beholding to that city. Does that translate into a great distance? Even major enemies in Mesoamerica lived only 3 days journey from each other, with the borders of their lands a day and a half journey for either. The ease with which the Lamanites mount attacks on the people of Zeniff suggest that the original city of Nephi and the city of Lehi-Nephi were not very far distant. Brandley wants a greater distance so he can stretch out the geography. One of the distance indicators is the journey of the rescue mission sent from Limhi in the city of Lehi-Nephi to Zarahemla.
Brandley suggests that the distance traveled could be much greater if they only used a boat, which would be logical if they were to travel the river. If Zarahemla is near the river Sidon, how do you miss it? While the Mississippi does have the Adena as time-depth parallels to the Jaredites, they preceded the Hopewell rather than overlapping in time with them. While that is not strictly a geographic issue, it nevertheless is a requirement that must fit within the geography. You must have missed what I wrote: Are you suggesting that nothing of Zarahemla could be seen from the Sidon?
I suppose that is possible, but seems somewhat unlikely—particularly since they were looking for Zarahemla. If they came to the river 50 miles or so upstream from Zarahemla they would never know it was there. When they came back they would have left the river at the same place they entered it. Also, they thought they had found the people of Zarahemla, all dead. Have you missed the fact that the journey to Lehi Nephi was a return to the environs of the city of Lehi that they had left less than a generation before? Even if there were miles from the City of Nephi to Zarahemla, Zeniff would have gone back those same miles.
Your extra 1, miles cannot be fit into the text, even accepting the first This has nothing to do with your presumption that the city of Nephi might have moved. The story of Zeniff requires that he return to the land he came from. I am confused about what you are saying. Perhaps I have not explained well enough what I am saying. Zeniff returned to the city of Lehi-Nephi, not the original city of Nephi.
This would be over 1, miles further south of the Rio Grande. Brant, I apologize for my slow thinking perhaps it is old age? You think that the original city of Nephi was also in the vicinity of Lehi-Nephi and there were three cities that Zeniff had, not just two. I think that the name of the city of Lehi-Nephi was changed to Nephi and it had nothing to do with the original city of Nephi, and it was nowhere near the people of Zeniff. I do not believe that the text supports you view. The first time the name of the city Lehi-Nephi is mentioned is in Mosiah 7: Notice that nothing is said concerning the city of Nephi.
The land of Lehi-Nephi is mentioned twice more in the narrative of king Mosiah Mos. Then in Mosiah 7: Notice the contract was for two cities and lands: There is no mention of a third city or land of Nephi. And he also commanded that his people should depart out of the land, and I and my people went into the land that we might possess it…And we began to build buildings, and to repair the walls of the city, yea, even the walls of the city of Lehi-Nephi, and the city of Shilom. Again, there were only two cities in the possession of King Zeniff.
Thirteen years later there are still two cities but now the city of Lehi-Nephi is called the city of Nephi. Yea, and it came to pass that they fled, all that were not overtaken, even into the city of Nephi, and did call upon me for protection. Zeniff appears to still be living in the same city but now it is called the city of Nephi. The city of Lehi-Nephi is never mentioned again. They did not contract for three cities and there are never three cities mentioned together in that location. The most reasonable explanation is that over the period of thirteen years the people of Zeniff simple shortened the name of the city.
Also, after years of being driven by the Lamanites, it would be too close to have been the original city of Nephi. Also, there is no evidence that the city of Nephi was the Lamanite capital in the days of Zeniff. The walls were worn down and Zeniff needed to build buildings in the city for his people Mosiah 9: Thus, I remain convinced that Lehi-Nephi and Nephi are in fact two names of the same city and the same land. Theodore Brandley has offered some very specific analyses of geographic references in the Book of Mormon.
I submit that if he is correct in all of them, then those advocating for other geographies would have to reconsider. It should always be a question of evidence rather than defense of previously accepted positions. Brandley and I disagree on the geography of the Book of Mormon, but we both owe it to ourselves and the LDS community to carefully understand the evidence.
In case some might not understand the importance of this discussion, it is really crucial if we are going to suggest a physical river as a candidate for the Sidon. For those advocating a Mesoamerican location for the Book of Mormon, the Sidon should flow north, as do the two candidate rivers in that region. For others Brandley among them it should flow south, as does the Misssissippi—their candidate for the Sidon. If the text requires a north-flowing river, the Mississippi is automatically out.
It really is an important question. The crucial datum comes from Alma Manti can be located south of Zarahemla. Therefore, if the origin is near Manti, then the river flows to the north. That would flow south. So far, we have a problem in that a single word in the text is used with two opposite meanings. Brandley suggests that the use of the name of a town Riverhead at the confluence of the Peconic River and the Atlantic ocean demonstrates that it could mean the mouth of the river rather than the origin.
Perhaps there are a few instances where we can find this meaning, but it is not the most common usage. That is not fatal to his position because virtually all of the geographic information requires analysis rather than simple acceptance. The real world geography of the Book of Mormon requires multiple data points. Resolving the flow of the Sidon requires more than one word. Brandley provides more information. Here is what he says: The narrow strip of wilderness ran east and west round about on the edge of the seashore 2.
Zarahemla was north of the seashore and north of Manti see also Alma 6: Manti was near the narrow strip of wilderness, that was by the sea 4. The head of the river Sidon was by the narrow strip of wilderness, that was by the sea Conclusion: This is the good counterpart to the World-Wrecking Wave. See also Solar CPR. This trope is the last resort of the Small Steps Hero.
You need to login to do this. Get Known if you don't have an account. They said it was lunacy , investing in Mordor real-estate. Well, who's rich now?! The ending of Green Legend Ran anime results in this. For decades the Earth had been reduced to a wasteland due to an alien influence, and when the Big Bad was finally defeated, Ran and his Magical Girlfriend magically restored the Earth back to what it used to be.
At the end of RahXephon , it is revealed that the instrumentalist can create a world according to their will. Ayato's choice creates a world where all the people he loves are happy, and the Mullian war never happened. The plot of almost every Dragon Ball story arc inevitably involves using the Dragon Balls to generate one of these. To the point where in later episodes, they hardly even worry about the damage they do fighting the Big Bad because they know they can do this once they're done defeating the Big Bad.
Digimon Yukio Oikawa does one at the end of Digimon Adventure 02 by using the power of a world were dreams come true to convert himself into energy and revitalize the Digital World. Justifed at least in this case because, as the way he did it was previously explained.
In Digimon Frontier , the world was in disarray because bad guys had stolen important data. We sometimes got to see ruined areas restored after the fall of the Monster of the Week early on. In the final episode, the entire Digital World had been fed to the Sealed Evil in a Can to fuel his full restoration, and he plans to make a new world in his image. When he's taken down for good, we get to see an entire world — the Digital World in its natural state, seen only in flashbacks until now — form from shiny barcodey lights.
At the end of Kanon , Ayu's miracle undoes all the tragic deaths occurring earlier in the series and heals Akiko. Also used in Mahou Sensei Negima! In Puella Magi Madoka Magica , this is, more or less, the result of Madoka's wish in the final episode. Magical girls and others who are killed by witches get brought back.
Magical girls who became witches, on the other hand, are whisked away to Magical Girl Valhalla by Madoka at the moment when they would have become witches. Madoka herself is removed from existence because she would have become an even more powerful version of Kriemhild Gretchen otherwise. Puella Magi Madoka Magica the Movie: Rebellion features another one, this time generated by Homura. If anything, the world it creates is even better than Madoka's - at the expense of it being explicitly under Homura's full control, and by this point she is pretty much an emotionally - shattered Well-Intentioned Extremist who believes Utopia Justifies the Means.
Gray-Man , having the Musician play the piano in Noah's Ark reversed the download which restored the setting as well as all the characters who hadn't been killed in battle. Massively subverted in Legend of Heavenly Sphere Shurato. The Goddess Vishnu releases one when she's restored to normal after having been Taken for Granite , repairing the Tenkuukai and reviving her fallen Hachibushu warriors. However, it has two drawbacks: In Naruto the Movie: Ninja Clash in the Land of Snow , the hexagonal crystal that Princess Koyuki carries around is implanted in a device that causes the never-ending winter in the Land of Snow to end and spring to arrive.
Two of these take place in Fushigi Yuugi: Genbu Kaiden , as the two wishes that Takiko makes to Genbu before dying: First, the country of Hokkan Genbu's land is about to be consumed not just by the upcoming war with Kutou, but by a glacial era that would be a MASSIVE disaster since Hokkan itself is made of steppes and plains. Takiko tells Genbu "Return spring to this land once more", Genbu accepts and the climate changes accordingly, saving the country from being covered in ice for what could be centuries.
Second, the wish that follows is basically one "for all the living things of this country to be restored to what they once were". In Guardian Fairy Michel , this tends to happen whenever a fairy is recused, instantly fixing the problems its capture caused. In the Pretty Cure series, it is customary for the battlefield to return to its ordinary state after the Monster of the Week is defeated and the bad guys escape. This exception to the rule is made more jarring as this is the first Precure series where the Monsters of the Week are summoned exclusively to attack civilians rather than just to fight the eponymous Magical Girl Warriors and, as such, the levels of mayhem and destruction are higher than the previous seasons.
Happens in an issue of the Fantastic Four after Earth is devastated from a gravity wave sent by Ego the Living Planet, an otherwise ordinary man with reality warping powers unknown to him mistakes the FF's leaving to deal with the threat as them fleeing the planet and his wish that things never happened winds things back as if the attack never occurred and burned out his powers permanently in the process. Odin also did this in a Thor comic, although in this case it was more of a universe-healing wave. In Zombies Christmas Carol , Scrooge's reformation and kindness to his fellow man, especially the Hungry Dead, change the infected to normal and let the already-dead ones die peacefully.
When the Hunter stabs the Heart of Evil on the Plains of Death, it releases a massive, ball-shaped burst of energy that spreads out over the Plains, destroying all the undead massed there and triggering rain in clouds that had been sitting there for ten years. Later, Ringo notes that some old seeds in the ground have started to sprout. Equestria has The Gardens of Equestria. Twilight Sparkle's greatest creation, a megaspell powered by the Elements of Harmony able to cleanse all Equestria of all the radiation and taint created by the end of the war and return its ability to be a paradise again.
Played with in Ace Combat: The Mane Cast use the Elements of Harmony powered up by Celestia and Luna's magic to slowly rejuvenate Equestria to the state before the war with the griffins. However, all characters that died during the war stay dead. The season 1 finale for Children of Time: Time is healing and beginning to move again after being frozen , thanks to the actions of Sherlock Holmes and John Watson. In other words, her death never happened since that timeline was wiped.
At the end of the Dark World storyline of the Pony POV Series , Rarity's ascension to being Liberalis , the Concept of the Mortal World , releases one of these that removes the last of Discord's tainted chaos from the world and restoring harmony. The use of six sets of Elements of Harmony to defeat Nightmare Eclipse once and for all lets off a timeline healing wave that breaks the "Groundhog Day" Loop she turned the Dark World timeline into and fixes the damage she caused to it.
At the climax of The Dashverse story Hot Heads, Cold Hearts, and Nerves of Steel , when the Elements of Harmony and the Crystal Heart are combined against Sombra, the released energy blast depowers him, cleanses the Crystal Empire of his taint, and seals his Windigo servants in a crystal cage. Destroying the portal in Warriors of the World: Soldiers of Fortune triggers one of these, resetting the entire Kingdom to the state it was before the events of the story began.
Five Misunderstandings Of The Book of Mormon Text That Veils Discovery Of Its Geography
It also causes Laser-Guided Amnesia for those who did not survive the event; only those who survived remember what happened. The Equestrian Wind Mage: After the Elements of Harmony destroy Demise once and for all at the end of Season 2, they then unleash one of these, which not only resurrects everyone killed during the Battle of the Crystal Empire, but also destroys the curse of enslavement Demise long ago placed on the monster races, freeing them all.
Apparently happened in the Oversaturated World when humanity gained magical abilities. Technically, this didn't so much heal the world as allow Sunset Shimmer to start healing the world herself, but given that it was doomed otherwise it qualifies. In Miyazaki's Princess Mononoke , When the Forest Spirit's head is shot off, its body spews a goo that destroys everything in its path, as a classic World-Wrecking Wave. After the heroes return it, the goo vanishes, and new plants sprout up from the ground, over Irontown But there's a price — the Forest Spirit is gone, now, and will never return.
Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs does this at the end — the clouds over all the world's cities disappear in a magical wave. But he takes it too far, covering all of New York City in flowers, which would bring one of the most important cities in the world to a screeching halt and have a devastating effect on the ecosystem.
The Sprite from the "Firebird Suite" segment of Fantasia uses her Fertile Feet to restore the ashen landscape after the devastation brought on by the Firebird. After the Beast transforms back into the prince in Beauty and the Beast , magical sparks spread across the castle and transform it back to its original state, with the gargoyles transforming into angels and the darkened walls turning to alabaster.
The end of South Park: Except Kenny, who has to go back to being dead but is sent to heaven.
After the pod blooms in full moonlight in Epic. From Frozen , summer returns to Arendelle once Queen Elsa finally gets a grip on her powers and thaws the eternal winter caused by her emotional distress. In Moana , once Te Fiti has her Heart restored, she's able to undo the blight that's been affecting islands across the Pacific; flowers bloom and coconuts that had begun to rot are shown becoming whole again.
At the end of The Neverending Story , when Bastian starts making wishes Fantasia is recreated the same as it was before the Nothing destroyed it. At the end of The Matrix Revolutions , the entire Matrix is returned to normal as Neo's source code is reinserted, using a cool sci-fi effect and the requisite black cat.
The earthquake resulting from the restoration of the Earth's core to its normal spinning state in The Core is described by DJ Qualls's character as "one giant shock wave" in which "the Earth is healing itself! Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. The wave of goodness that passed over the town of Heartland at the end of the movie, canceling out all of the effects of Mr. In Star Trek II: When fired at a planet, it converts the matter on the surface into life-sustaining matter, in effect terraforming the entire planet in days instead of years.
It is shown to have worked on a cave, and in the end it is detonated in a nebula, building an entire planet from scratch. The Search for Spock , however, shows that it doesn't actually work. Said planet goes through its entire lifecycle from newly formed planet to catastrophic destruction in what is implied to be a week or two at most. This because its lead creator, Captain Kirk's son David Marcus, used unstable protomatter in order to basically cheat his way into completing the thing, showing he's Not So Different from his father.
The trope is also subverted in that Genesis doesn't discriminate in what it converts. Whether dead rock or populated planet, everything on the surface is getting culled for Genesis to do its thing. This becomes a big issue in the next few movies, because Genesis represented one of the deadliest weapons known to civilization: Perhaps even a biosphere more suitable to the user's needs than the existing one.
The Voyage Home described it as the "Genesis Weapon", and was paranoid that the Federation intended to use it to wipe out the Klingon Empire. Worse, it may actually work just fine. It was meant for use on dead planets, not what specks of matter it could pull together from a nebula. Apples and oranges, only more so. Though shortcuts were taken, and for a casual fan, there's no knowing where the Expanded Universe stands on the matter from what we got onscreen, a warning label on it that says "actual planet required" may be all that is necessary for the thing to go operational.
It would be very bad if misused. In the end of Good Omens , Adam makes it so that the world will not remember the day that just passed and all that happened is undone: Semi-example at the end of the Mistborn trilogy, after Sazed ascends to godhood all the damage that the Lord Ruler and Ruin did to the world is fixed, the ashmounts get sealed up, and there are flowers.
It's only a semi-example because he hadn't figured out how to bring dead people back to life, so most of the original population is dead, but at least the survivors are safe and get a fresh start in a much better environment. A classic example from The Chronicles of Narnia: Within a day or so it has become early summer, restoring the natural balance. Characters that had been turned to stone by the Witch are revived by Aslan as well, though that takes more direct intervention. Left Behind Averted in the book Kingdom Come , as God and Jesus spend a few months restoring the earth to its former beauty following the end of the Tribulation to make it new for the Millennial Kingdom.
Also possibly played straight in Glorious Appearing , when a nearly devastated Jerusalem is instantly restored and void of any dead bodies littering the streets after Jesus gets rid of the Global Community. In The Radiant Dawn , when Stacie surrenders and absorbs all the evil magic into the throne , all the undead risen by said magic fall apart and crumple — but nobody is resurrected and all the destruction they wrought remains. At the end of the final book in Gael Baudino's Dragon Sword trilogy, the first act of Alouzon after her apotheosis is to heal the land of the ravages of unleashing the equivalent of the Vietnam War-era United States Armed Forces on it.
In Messenger , this is brought about by Matty sacrificing himself to heal the world — the Village's residents become good again, Trademaster is exiled, and Forest becomes mostly benevolent once more. The Dakara superweapon in Stargate SG-1 was originally designed to do this.
Of course, given that it's called a "weapon" It's more a tool that can be used as a weapon. When tied in with the Stargate network to vastly increase its range, the Dakara device can do almost anything the user desires, up to and including rewriting the entire galaxy on a molecular level. It unleashes one of these to demolish all the Replicators in the galaxy in "Reckoning, Part 2". Of course, it's a World-Wrecking Wave if you happen to be a Replicator. And would've been for everything if Anubis had gotten his hands on it; his plan was to erase all life in the Milky Way then recreate it according to his own design.
Since Anubis himself was no longer truly alive, he would've survived the process. In fact, this is how life came to exist in the Milky Way. The Ancients came here from their own galaxy, and found a dead galaxy. So they created the Dakara device to seed it with life, including the potential for humans who are by design nearly identical to the Ancients. The wave of goodness caused by Zordon's death at the end of Power Rangers in Space which either killed or turned good all the villains from that point to the beginning of the franchise.