I may sound like an alarmist, but this is the real deal. This shit destroys lives, big time. Really amazing how out of touch some clowns are. A slut will walk away in a heartbeat. Changing partners is just what she does, no big deal. It really does pay to be able to distinguish between the two, and theory aside, it can be done. No man wants to date an Elaine Benes-type who dumps her boyfriends over stupid and trivial reasons. As a year old male, my ideal partner would be relatively inexperienced 2 to 3 LTRs and no random fucks. How do any of us KNOW that most people show their true colors over time?
And people adapt with time anyway. He used her off the cuff remarks about sleeping with guys to bust his slut. Plus friends share strategies to avoid being outed as a slut. So by this point in her life she may have a successful strategy down pat for hiding her sluttiness from all her future lovers. Especially if they have no access to her former social circles. I think you guys are severely underestimating the lying skills of women by focusing on the ones who are bad at it.
The bad liars may or may not be the majority, but how would we really know, as the essence of a good liar is that they never get caught. Unlike guys, women on average know how to keep secrets and get away with lying better than men. As a practical matter girls just are not that disciplined. Search my blog for relevant terms; I reviewed a review on it once.
I also looked up how many partners a woman had in the past year, as a function of age, according to the GSS.
It’s Easy To Identify A Slut | Chateau Heartiste
Average number of partners increases from 18 up, peaks at 22, and declines steadily afterward. As for frequency of having sex, that peaks between 24 and 29 — but this is now in the context of more monogamous relationships. BTW a good time to get information out of a woman is when she has had a few drinks. The things people blurt out after a couple glasses of wine. Why waste time precious resource related to attractiveness on a woman who will not work out. They have to be attractive enough in all areas to GET the committment.
Stuff women do among themselves social pressure, consensus does not work. Or they will just have to take the consequences of the current choices. I am somehow not too worried. I never knew science so neatly dove-tailed with a certain generalized outlook towards life and politics. But of course, science is the arbitrator of all reality. Nor the admission of data which contradicts said research.
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Quick, I hear your girlfriend barking at you to hurry up so you can make the Take Back the Night rally. Have fun holding her purse and cheering her on. His discovery is that what their dick reflexively reacts to is either one or the other. Interesting question then is why do some homos do girls?
To cover up full faggotry? Actually Spike, EVERY culture except ours, and only recently had large social controls over sexual behavior, particularly by women. The Muslim men were scandalized. This did not happen by accident. Humans ARE very adaptable, you will see among human societies widespread different attitudes and behaviors and traditions in different cultures. Yes, social pressure and institutions and the like WILL on average change behavior and HAS changed behavior, radically, in less than fifty years: Attitudes that were commonplace in Hollywood films are now unacceptable today.
As for male bisexuality, it has been quite rare in Western men, common in Muslim societies, and fairly rare among hunter-gatherers. Like I said, human beings are quite adaptable. In both good and bad ways. Male gayness seems fairly low when access to women is generally relatively equal, as it has been in the West since about AD or so.
Male gayness is seen where access to women is restricted. You seem to assume if I read you right that the sum total of Western Civilization will just go on by magic fairy dust, that it will not take lots of male cooperation and stake-holding in the form of nuclear families to create it. That the West cannot rapidly collapse to West African levels of savagery if the nuclear family collapses. If she does drugs or smokes, correlates with higher level of testosterone meaning she will more likely take in the ass.
I guess I should rewrite the tramp stamp… another obvious sign that she is kinky and is a slut. Kinda wrong but girls who were sexually abused usually are more likely to be sexually active. Sick but true fact. So, Bailey proved that… and has not had a single researcher try to replicate the study, much less disprove it.
Easy, if you actually looked at the fucking article. Yeah, you got me to pay for another fucking one. I bet that warms the cockles of your heart. This is the device Bailey used to make all his measurements. Mind you it took me all of fifteen minutes to find this, all while carrying a buzz. Do you dislike me so much that you relish and giggle at the thought of me sitting drunk in the bathtub, opening my arteries and staining the water pink as my life ebbs away?
Agnostic — um, dude? You, on the other hand, are pretty much indisputably into kids:. In general, civilization is always in an irreparable state by my eyes. The vast majority of people who have ever lived have had no appreciation for the finest fruits of it, instead more or less blindly groping their way from the cradle to the grave.
As such, I believe that anyone dedicated to truly enjoying and understanding civilization and culture makes himself an outsider from the vast majority of people. Sure, the majority provides the body and feet that propel humanity forward, but civilization clings precariously inside it and does not direct it.
In which case her comments are self-defense. This pretty much applies to all women. But I specifically thought MQ had non-slutty friends. They do this because all American women have an entitlement complex about giving out emotional, physical, and financial attacks to men but never recieving them from men. I know at least one poster talked about doing something similiar. In fact, it should be outlawed. And if they do defend themselves, how many went to jail for defending themselves? The Rest of My Life vs. A Really Mean Test. And if she is a good girl, no one is hurt. They have been with a sufficient number of men that they are now prepared to construct Franken-boyfriend, the super-duper only what she deserves imaginary boyfriend, constructed out of the mutually exclusive best traits of ten different men!
They are also more emotionally damaged than a slut 19 year old with four partners…. Now, the 19 year old slut will, rapidly, pass them, but they are still more damaged at that point. A lot less slutty, a lot more sane, but still more damaged. Who really DID make a comment later on, but that is not me. Whiskey, like I said, I understand the reasons.
Just throwing in my two cents. Why should an emotionally healthy woman , with few partners chose a cynical bitter man who can no longer trust. Trust and respect are the foundations of a LTR. A couple will enjoy freedoms when they can trust each other. This site is a campfire for bitter, hurt men who admonish each other to never trust. I would disagree with that. For instance, in some countries the lower class is far more stricter about certain things than the upper class. Like, if you have sex with a woman before marriage her brothers may threaten you with death if you do not marry her.
The low-class blacks in america have lost the plot, which is why the latinos will supplant their positions of power. Having said all that, the american Blacks still hold certain crucial advantages over the Whites, which is why in the shock of all shocks they will still in 50 years be in a better position than the whites. Note I said that MANY of the tendencies mentioned in relation to black people are common among all lower class peoples.
I totally accept and agree with the premise that there are social pathologies unique to blacks, and rampant illegitimacy is one of them. My point is just that when evaluating studies like that, you have to separate the parts that represent general pathologies of poor people everywhere from the traits that are unique to black culture regardless of class.
This is a myth. Man people busting out David Hume into the cihper…. A lot of girls have no trouble with saying one of their friends is a slut especially when they are competing for the same resource. It seemed like female control exerted by other females. Things getting mad serious though… damn..
I saw this hilarious list the other day http: In what way will are they now in a better relative position to whites that they will maintain for the next 50 years? But beyond that, how do we KNOW anything about anyone? Or are plotting a horrible death for you in some cult ritual? Maybe they are just really good at appearing normal and honest, but in fact are vicious and malevolent people. People generally give away the game about themselves, at least to a good extent. Could they harbor some important secrets that they never divulge? But in general people reveal their true stripes over time.
Your counter argument runs up against thousands of years of human experience. In essence, the bad crowd has tells. Some may be obvious, some more nuanced. As humans, we have learned to notice these tells, and see trouble brewing. If you want to stick to your guns, then fine.
Apparently he is quite ready to believe in a tangible reality when the chips are down. We know this because he is still alive. Humans are social critters. We can have good relationships with others, and we can also get burned. It pays, big time, to trust the right people and not the wrong people. It might be helpful, instead of focusing on the issue of flushing out sluts, to instead think of this in terms of all of the other decisions you make about people in life. Who you avoid, who you want to get more involved with. Same basic principles apply. We all have to do this as a matter of survival.
You, consciously or not, utilize tells in other areas of life. Why not with sluts? You do this despite there being no absolute proof, despite the fact that you could theoretically be wrong. There are no absolute guarantees, but there is a wealth of human experience and wisdom, not to mention our hardwiring. We have to go with the tools we have, both concerning sluts and in every other facet of our lives. I disagree with the notion that critics of a given system, in this case our social system, necessarily have the negative qualities that you attribute to them.
This idea of smearing anyone who disagrees with the prevailing orthodoxy is, quite frankly, lame. And yes, females do this much more than men: It is profoundly anti-intellectual and disingenuous. However, that trust must be earned. It must rest on a solid foundation. Our current system does have the effect of reducing trust. When you have a system that encourages numerous partners, obviously people are going to be getting burned en masse.
Regarding the low number of median partners for women in the U. I think it all depends on what part of the country you live in and in which circles you run. And women in NYC seem to screw around a lot more than women elsewhere. But out in more conservative areas, there are a lot of women who have one or two long term boyfriends and then find someone they want to settle down with. I agree about confirmation bias. I would suggest the best way to out most women as liars is to hire a private investigator or, failing that, know how to do most of that work yourself.
My past life as a… shall we say information liberator… is quite useful with regard to that. People lie a lot more than you would suspect on the surface if you have the tools to fact check what they are saying. Because it is hard to distinguish sluts and whores from decent women, when the percentage of sluts and whores increases, men tend to assume the worst about everyone.
This is actually a pretty basic game theory problem related to the lemon vs. Just a rough outline off the top of my head. That would enforce a pretty strong standard of behavior on both sides of the marriage market, and would criminalize a lot of behavior that should be prohibited. It would make people think a lot harder about getting married in the first place, and think a lot harder about fucking up once they were married.
I would expect it to vary dramatically by geography central Idaho! There is a lot of truth to this, which is why our current system is so disastrous for most people. One obvious solution is to facilitate early marriage. Another less obvious solution is to accept delayed marriage, but to have such strong societal institutions discouraging promiscuity that. Gifts are generally pretty creepy.
I was once countered in a dumping with the offer of future absurdly costly gifts. This gave me a lot of sympathy for women who dump men who provide for them. Spike cosign clearly left out the bi behavior amongst the men of Sparta. Instead, the people of Persia were stamped sexual deviants. Human sexuality is not all black and white. There is a lot of gray there. Another less obvious solution but in my opinion probably the better one is to accept delayed marriage, but to have strong societal institutions discouraging promiscuity so that people are far less damaged when they enter marriage, even if they are older when they head to the church.
It is true that in most traditional societies across the planet, women tended to be married off very, very young. But in Europe, particularly northern Europe, this was not necessarily the case. For centuries, the age at marriage for women was not that much different than today — which is to say late. Yet the illegitimacy rate was negligible, this in a society where birth control was basically unknown and women typically married well into their twenties. Upon marriage they proceeded to have huge families. It all seems counterintuitive from our modern vantage point, but it happened.
Our modern propaganda machine has filled us with so many falsehoods that it is difficult to break from the matrix. Even in posters who are out of the box thinkers, I often see politically correct premises hidden in their writing. Counterintuitive or not, for a good long time Western society was able to achieve something quite remarkable — a relatively free society that also curtailed promiscuity and destructive behavior — and yet kept the collective cradle full. At least amongst certain white societies, this was actually achieved in the real world.
The people of Persia were far more homosexual oriented than any of the ancient Greeks who were hardly monolithic in their sexual practises. Lupo, point well noted. That does not excuse the filmmaker omitting the fact that Spartans like to mix it up as well.
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And regarding the stuff about straight guys temporarily entering into homosexual relationships or partaking in homosexual sex act in prison. Seems more like an urban legend. It also explains the high crime rate. This is all pretty standard stuff for all of us interested in HBD.
SMH If Black men have a lot of partners it could be because a lot of women are throwing themselves at them??? Dave from Hawaii- You got it. Is it any wonder that OOW children is taboo in most of Africa. How many African women do you find who have OOW children? Moreover, it did so across all subjects tested. Was it biased — did it have a mind of its own, and want the results to come out a certain way?
Again, just think it through. And it is still used in research on sexual deviancy. There are recent articles that use it to see whether a sex offender is a pedophile or ephebophile, and it tells you what their criminal offenses tell you. Dude, you realize that you practically masturbated when you wrote that tirade, right? Fatherless homes are far more likely to produce criminal children than either Motherless homes or complete nuclear family homes, on average. The stats absolutely back it up. Oh Dave, I agree big-time. I think those studies prove that a boy needs a farther to teach him how to be a man.
What about women, would such a study work to determine their sexuality? He also completely ignored the Kinsey distinctions of bisexual leanings to one side or another, which in previous statistical research was the vast majority of active male bisexuals. True Kinsey 3s are incredibly rare. Secondly, the sample size was incredibly tiny. Of the 33, 11 men failed to have any response whatsoever on the plethysmograph.
By that token, a near plurality of bisexual men are actually asexual! Three of the 25 men assigned homosexual who had a response had zero response to homosexual porn, yet registered a response to hetrosexual porn which was of two girls getting it on. Also, the idea of someone posting here to get pity made me laugh out loud. No, what you see is me merely exercising my incredibly bad habit of saying exactly what I think and feel complete with salient biographical details.
The idea of someone posting here anonymously to engage in all sorts of chest-beating, bragging and shit talking that would get him a quick call to the floor in real life, on the other hand, is depressingly plausible. The reason that children raised without fathers turn out to be criminal is more due to the genes they inheret than the enviornment.
How to test this theory? See what happens when kids are adopted. Do they turn out more like their biological parents or the parents who raised them? Its been done, and nature won. Liberalism has been a curse on all of us, but hits those with low IQs, individuals and races, the hardest. So in other words, white people have to regress and give up their freedom in order to have successful minority communities?
Could you start providing links to your many assertions about Michael Bailey? But I also know the accusers are livid about his theory about what transsexualism and autogynephilia and therefore they want to take him down. They feel personally affronted. Technological advances enable better ways to measure sexual arousal by directly watching the brain and fMRI is a powerful tool. But sometimes researchers have to use cheaper and older tools because budgets are limited.
Hardly a reason to slam them in my view. Reading the primary sources clears up an awful lot of confusion on this subject. For example, my liberal pals were recently trying to tell me that gay marriage had historical precedent. There was a lot of rogering of adolescent boys going on in that part of the world of course. Thanks for asking nicely. I need ever assertion down chapter and verse, and all that. I mostly post here when I hit a bloc in my own fiction writing or just want to take a cathartic break, which explains some of the massive tone and language shifts in my posting history.
What say you to that? Really though, I think the methodology of just the particular study in question is damning enough in regards to the strong conclusions he makes. So his own comments are really besides the point when it comes to the quality of your own claims about the subject matter. You are trying to pose as having more expert understanding. When someone does that I expect them to perform to a higher standard. If you want to strike the pose then walk the talk. Also, you continue in your response to me to make more assertions. You are also slamming the character of a researcher in human sexuality.
Why make them in the first place then? The chief question is whether his theories are correct. I do not see repetition of slams on his character as productive. These slams were originally advanced by people with hurt feelings about their own personality identities since his theory on why they are the way they are is offensive to them. But is his theory on transsexualism and autogynephilia correct?
I do not know. Similarly, the claim that there are few bisexuals is an interesting one, far more interesting and important than the attacks on Bailey. Are people who engage in bisexual behavior really homo or hetero but with high sex drives and high novelty seeking desire? The explanation seems very plausible to. People with very high sex drives exist. First off, yes, most heterosexual men are eager not to be seen as the slightest bit gay. But what does this have to do with how many true bisexuals there are? The more obvious bias comes from foolish predictable behavioralists aka social environmentalists trying to claim that sexuality is a lot more mutable than it is.
With rare exception males have their sexual orientation from a very early age. This is yet another subject about human nature on which the behaviorists were wrong. Chic — Spartan behavior was aimed completely from preventing dynasties from arising. Is human sexuality very plastic? Gay sex is a coping mechanism for violent and dangerous men deprived women. We can see this by the huge amount of fights over women noted in particularly Western Culture.
From Helen of Troy to the English conquest of Ireland basically started by Irish kings fighting over a woman and inviting a Norman mercenary, Strongbow, to settle the fight. Not a man was willing to console himself with gay sex and instead all but one killed each other. In , crime rates were extremely low among them, and now they skyrocket. Only thing that changed was culture. By classic game theory men should theoretically welcome exits from competition for women, and encourage gayness and as many gay men as possible. Why is it then that gay men generally encounter a great deal of dislike among straight men?
Ruthlessly suppress gay men. Uh, why are you so insistent I post it here? But on to some of your concerns. Like I stated in the original reply to you, I have no interest in hysteria or moral panic. First off, some of my assertions are from the said study itself. Go and buy yourself a PDF version of it. I completely withhold personal judgement on the validity of his argument is in that regard.
Certainly the consensus of the reviews from his peers in sexology published before the entire scandal aspect broke was that the book was groundbreaking and well written, but there were strong problems with generalizations, arguments unsupported by the data and lack of distance between the researcher and the subjects. If anything it came up quite a bit more often in my academic field than in his, to even the most well respected scholars. All in all the early reviews paint a mixed bag. Part of methodology is experimental ethics.
Let me give you an example. This was just for interviewing priests and laypeople about their historical recollections in regards to Shinto Shrines, mind you. While the rules and submission process are not uniform between academic institutions, one of the huge bylines for all researchers is the matter of recorded informed consent via signature and allowing subjects to know that their privacy will be protected. This is pretty much standard procedure for any work you intend to publish or present on.
No ifs ands or buts. On November 12, , C. Moore, head of research at Northwestern mailed a letter to say his department had completed its investigation into the matter and found that Bailey had not obtained informed consent. He shat not only where he himself eats, but where a lot of people in his field eat.
That sort of mistake or overlook is so large and glaring, one begins to question the smaller aspects of methodology as well. Also, I tend to agree that male bisexuals are rarer than female ones. I also believe that most of them lean more towards one side or another in arousal response and even more so romantic response. For the vast majority of men, going gay is simply not an option because the mental image of performing sex acts with men turns their stomachs. And your idea that women are turned off by intelligence in a man is bunk.
All other things equal, intelligence is a minor plus. Sometimes I wonder if White Americans are more anti- intellectual than other White peoples. Based on the fact that half the intellectual heavy lifting in the USA is done by Asians and Jews despite their status as small minorities, I might venture to guess that something similar may be going on among Whites as is going on among Blacks and Hispanics. Namely that studying hard is seen as deviating from group norms. Hence young White Americans salivate at the though of becoming lawyers and business executives instead of engineers and scientists.
In my opinion the legal profession is but a necessary evil. Or actually appearing nerdy. Getting into a good law or business school does take studying hard. But there is no such thing as a business nerd. Law nerds exist in small numbers. Look at the wages in each profession. Unsurprisingly, people are crowding into the ones with the highest wages. Markku, I think the only thing that comes close to a business nerd would be Quant Finance. But I would tend to agree.. There is definitely a lot of pressure in the minority community to not look like a nerd when you are in school.
You have this dual pressure of performing well because you can, and performing well socially. If you are lucky enough to have the be popular, have the gift of gab, and play sports, then you are in the green. If you are from a rough neighborhood you end up running 2 fronts, and learn how to speak street and queens English at the same time.
This of course only happens if you are socially aware and well adjusted and just happen to be smart. Lot of them peruse blogs that are to business what this blog is to dating. I tried these blogs, and admittedly they were way over my head. You can take this fact and spawn off a few more bullet points from it. I would even today rate them as having a slight advantage to whites if only because of birth rate. Whites obviously have more money but as the current recession will starkly reveal, this is a transient thing. And their relative numbers are way too lopsided for minor differentials in birthrates to be a big deal.
Besides, birth rates can change on a dime from one generation to the next. But seriously, I appreciate your clarification, but your premise is all wrong. There is no black vs white competition in the US. I was just making a point that the black underclass did not have to take the route that it chose to take I would say the decision was made in the late sixties and early seventies. I would even say that what we are talking about is specific to the 1. The blacks, as I said before, will survive, but I think they will survive at their current level, which, to return to the earlier premise, means the hispanics will gain more and more power as their numbers increase, including political clout, often at the expense of the black underclass.
Recently, in Jordan Downs, a Grape Street clique rebuffed by a year-old boy who refused to join gang-raped his year-old sister, taped the attack, and showed the video to the boy. The boy gave in and joined. Older gang members and veteran police say the neighborhoods are codeless and anarchic. The differences between black and Latino gangs are stark. And the black gang members I spoke with readily admit that the difference is fatal.
When Latinos go gangbanging they have a solid plan. Latinos make a call, make a plan. They have a structure. They associate more with their gang colors than they do with their own color as African-Americans. Watts and neighboring Compton, historically and famously black neighborhoods, are already roughly 70 percent Hispanic. They are happy to wait it out as black gangs sabotage themselves. And they know their fate. I think whites rates are at 1. I never said Blacks would be victorious or anything like that, but -to help further clarify my point — I still see blacks as being in the more advantageous position if solely because the trends for them will be stable while whites will continue to be at a down-slope granted all this can change within mere years, but this is my current analysis at this juncture in time.
First of all, Arabs are already counted as whites in the census, but because of the well-known and mostly religious hostilities at play, I mark them down as non-white which further decreases the white percentages. And I doubt Mestizos will ally themselves — for instance, I know mexicans and carribean hispanics who like like spaniards or italians and have known ancestry to regions of those countries, but clearly identify with their latin american race.
Also, white-asian mixed kids I agree will probably try to identify themselves as white but they are very little of the population. And somehow it is this perpetual moral outrage paired with opportunistic application of what is despised at the same time has survived the rather short lived hype of simple […]. One major problem is that engineering is already seen as a difficult major that requires considerable amount of time for studying. One must also include the highly uninterested professors who want nothing to do with their undergrad students, and give as little assistance as possible.
In other words, Engineering needs to pay considerably more for it to be worth the penalty that one takes to engage in such a major. If society judges the value of a profession by the market value of pay, then Engineering is OK but FAR from at the top. For the amount of hard work required to finish school and getting a job… I would say that on a purely monetary level it is not worth it. Most engineers enter into Engineering school because they actually like doing the engineering stuff..
A lot of the kids are wising up to that and looking at their options. The reality is that although engineering school is a meritocracy, the environment that engineers end up working in is not generally a meritocracy. Thus it makes perfect sense that smart kids would choose the path that is most rewarding in the most dimensions. Something you can see in a lot of technology companies is that a lot of the star performers in engineering are shedding the mantle and heading to B school…..
Actually… to put this back on topic, this is kind of like how to identify a terrible boss…. No hate, just recognize the creatures. JEN I think the reason why ChickNoir is so angry is because she wants to impose a marital affirmative action on white men so that black chicks get a chance to marry white men HA Where did you read that at??? You can relax Jen, your father, brothers, and uncles are safe around me;. Entry-level engineers are glorified CAD draftsmen, so their low starting salaries are entirely justified.
They put in several years in increasing levels of responsibility and eventually become state-registered engineers. At that point, they can even call themselves engineers, and their salaries ger pretty good. Electrical engineering is hot right now; registered EEs are hard to find. It was the only field that where the students even discussed the need to register, while I never heard anything similar to that from EEs, MEs, or CpEs. Regardless, I knew of some students who were complaining during their internships that they saw engineers replaced with outsourced labour, particularly those at entry level positions.
Otherwise, there was no way that I was going to succeed on blind native intellectual strength. I would say he gives weak behaviour contempt: After all, we all know the picture of an effective man painted here is not the norm. Perhaps blaming it on feminism is the woman-hating portion of that? But in general, he seems to enjoy women a hell of a lot; he enjoys them with the full overanalysed knowledge of all their foibles.
I could care less that a bunch of men with self esteem problems have to bag on women to make themselves feel better. God forbit women enjoy themselves and have multiple partners. Based on how illogical, deluded and shrill these new comments were, I checked Jezebel. First clue was when one of the commenters claimed feminists were of equal intelligence to the commenters here. Everyone knows progressive feminists are actually dumber than the average woman except on Jezebel and feministing.
At first I read this list and was insulted. This is sounds so much like a whiny high school kid blasting his ex online to make himself feel better about the break up. The whole list screams stereotype that, one looser girl showed a characteristic thus all girls sharing that must be loose.
So close to a perfect score. I would enjoy hearing how those in agreement with this blog sleep at night being that your entire approach to interacting with others is based on wholesale contempt and manipulation. I mean, how easy was it to just completely disregard human decency? Is your mom proud of you? T, Thanks for the Jezebel link. There are only a few blogs I read.. The commenters on the Jezebel site unintentionally had me laughing for a good 15 minutes. Instead, they were the kind of responses you might get from the audience of the Oprah Winfrey show.
If Jezebel is the norm for women, then no better advice can be given to a man than to learn game. Jezebel just proves that many women are operating exclusively on an emotional level and tactics like game which undercut their emotional armor will work effortlessly. Wow racist and ignorant! No of course not oops that statement was dripping with sarcasm, I must be a slut!
I thought these feminists are more into fisting and scissorfests. Through these little cock adventures, you guys became sluts. Meanwhile me and the other guys on the forum enjoy taking you home from bars, ravaging your bodies to wet screaming orgasms and then get the fuck out of your homes as soon as you fall into drunk exhausted slummer. We learned to detect you and use your manipulations against yourselves. And, yes, we can tell you from the good girls, who have a sense of decency left in them. We will enjoy our youths with you one night at a time and our old age with women who know how to control themselves.
Your argument is not new, accurate, or interesting. Your misunderstanding of science and logic is almost as epic as your naked hatred of women. People still call girls sluts? What is this, the 50s? Oh, dear Ricky Raw. That is very funny. Thanks for the giggles. I wonder if these commenters are going to stray to other posts or become regulars. This is over-doing it a little bit. Men fall in love with sluts all the time. Also men are notoriously blind in love.
We all have that friend who has hooked up with a girl we know is shady, but he will refuse to hear anything about it. Alphas seem particularly vulnerable to this because their self-confidence makes them think they will be the ones to totally capture her and turn her into a good wife which is not out of the realm of possibility, btw.
Alpha males are generally much nicer, calmer, and more fun to be around, not to mention better fucks. Men that behave this way are transparently insecure, which we all know is so not sexy. People, confident or otherwise, are not nice, as an overwhelming majority. Put people in situations where large amounts of money, power, or fame are at stake, and see how nice they are. It is, in fact, normal. I do enjoy cuddling with girls, so you score again there. Rarely do I come across something so simultaneously pathetic, stupid, funny and sad. Or least not all of them and the same goes to say for all women in general.
In the black community the playing field for sex is not as male-dominated or double sided. If she wants it, she gotta have it. It has nothing to do with race and everything to do with how she views sexual morality. But people always make it a moral issue. But what exactly is the difference between these examples supposed to be? Honestly, get over yourself and grow up. No, Jackson, I did not say that. These people are dumbasses trapped in their own pathetic little world. But the impact of the generalization has something to do with whether its important to question it.
Mildly positive and not really tied to a race that has seen a lot of oppression historically? Blindly accepting the positive and only questioning the negative is not good common sense; it is, in fact, downright stupid. However, positive generalizations are just as damaging, only more subtle in their impact; if you say one group is something positive that is X, but decline to mention other groups, it becomes a stereotype via omission, which is harder to combat than a direct one.
The value of a generalization should be based exclusively on how close to the truth it is. Anything else is intellectual dishonesty. Treating a group of people with condescending kid gloves because of their skin color is somehow not racism. So chin up, sluts! Or if you are an artist dancer actress whatever. Men expect you to be all free spirited and find it exciting.
The man who wants you in spite of himself will find a way to justify and rationalize marrying you. Real dealbreakers are rare. How many honor killings have happened because of a girl being thought to have a good sense of humor or a bit chubby? I pay the price for people like others who promote these myths…and my daughter does too. This is however, nothing new. I do what I can to spread the truth one broken finger, busted nose, dislodged tooth, and impacted testicle at a time.
This entry made me unspeakably sad for you. I think the countless nights spent masturbating to pictures of your mother and calling Singles Chat hotlines only to breathe heavily into the receiver before hanging up must be painful enough. Have a great life. Nah, predatory sadism would be if we were in a truly public forum, and you actually had an argument that tore mine apart with a skill that can only come from true emotional and intellectual superiority. As it is, I have yet to see even mild sadism from you.
I know a place that neither of us owns, where the guy only censors spam. You need to be a misogynist! You need to demean sexually liberated slutty!! Jeez, did everyone here just read Atlas Shrugs? Having a healthy, equal relationship with a woman. You guys out to try it some time. Second, I would be angrier if the reality from which your post issued were not almost entirely, and profoundly, sad.
You will, if you respond, have a ready arsenal of cutting words of diminishment and dismissal to use against me. You sound like a pretty vile person. No woman with half a brain would ever be interested in you. I bet, deep down inside, you know that. I only use physical force to defend myself against physical force. Your paranoid delusions are again very telling though. I have thusfar defended myself effectively. Enjoy the one corner of the internet where you can pretend some superioritaah.
A misandrist and a misogynist having an argument can only argue within the limits set by their defect. Neither can argue effectively because both base their superiority moral or intrinsic on irrelevancies. Neither has any way of articulating how the other is truly inadequate without facing their own inadequacy.
See a Problem?
A blind spot is created to keep the mind from having to deal with the reality, that both are slaves to the social engineers who programmed them to oppose each other in order to distract them from reality. Sounds like he touched a nerve there about promiscuity, eh? Heh, that smiling dude in your avatar pic is investing long-term in a slut. And therefore, she is allowing a loser to put it in her. Oh, the power you have over me you big, strong, alpha man. I wonder if they are lonely down here?
Vanessa, i find it scary and fascinating the ay they seem to find sex and, by extension, women so filthy. Nah, lee13, you were trying to communicate of their level. Please, contain your fantasy screams for another night. Are you … actually apologizing for insulting someone who pissed you off? Oh, oh, Agnostic you must stop or my sides shall simply burst! It is too rich, this conceit where you pretend as though you would love nothing more than to bed the commenter Vanessa.
Please, find some way to copyright your brilliance before it becomes widely used and wholly unfunny. These guys are the minority. Most of us women are doing just fine. Your daughters are lucky to have a guy like you as a father, btw. It is a dichotomy, even if it is one of degrees: To this end, it behooves us to familiarize ourselves with the sociological indicators of sluttery so that we may make informed choices about the women in whom we chose to invest our resources.
Ugh Jackson, how defeatist. I must do better no matter what everyone else is doing. Perhaps the aghast hordes of newcomers will find this story to be more to their liking? And you expect people to take you seriously. Then why are you so angry when guys write about it? This new crowd sounds like a lot of women getting older and less attractive and realizing it.
Second, the best sociological indicator of whorishness is apparently the desire to marry under the current legal conditions. The only time it has to be all on the man is when women are legally forbidden to own property and have no living male relatives. Men get cuckolded in the numbers they do for the same reason women get dogged in the numbers they do: You can bet there was something more than she needed attention. The guy was their hoe retirement plan. In two of these cases, we found out that the woman had actually worked as a prostitute in another city.
Babies have been made. And no, you perceive the world as you perceive it , due to your personal experiences and biases. Your view of women defined by a PUA as conquests, no? Thank you for so painstakingly taking each and every sentence I wrote and responding to it. So, thank you for stating your argument, and apparently I was not concise enough in mine. I would like to address the inference that I am contradicting myself. I mean to intimate that women who are raised believing that they have to adhere to standards of American society are often not provided for emotionally, mainly by their fathers.
As they grow older and more insecure, they will seek that attention in other men, often in dominant men such as yourself. Real men build women up, not break them down for a money shot. When you argue controversial things, there will be rebuttals. This is how we keep our minds sharp and we establish the way we view the world. That said, none of this matters. Everything I say will fall on your deaf ears. This is a total waste of time, because the only responses you can provide me with are dependent on my face, my body, and your presumptuous speculations about what I believe.
Lastly, do not align me with strangers. I have two brothers. You actually enjoy the feeling that you are causing internal damage to your sexual partners? This makes you desire someone more? God help the women that you sleep with. Are you seriously calling women sluts for doing the exact same things you are telling men to do? You are telling men to sleep around and yet if a woman sleeps around she is a slut and therefore a use her and lose her kind of girl, definitely not marriage material.
You think women want to marry the kind of men that read your blog and take it seriously? No wonder women are just out to get casual sex now. You have some power issues? In fact, there is a moment where this turned to be just uneventful chapters filled with sex scenes, unlike the initial chapters where you feel more ingenious interaction between the characters.
And, of course, the main reason of all the controversy about this graphic novel, is due that the three main characters tell their own sex experiences while they are still teenagers. Sometimes they are too big for us, sometimes we outgrow them; they become too small. Or perhaps they wear out; become dull, familiar, merely comfortable. However, when the story turned to be too real, when the pixie dust is depleted, when the characters turned to be too adult, with needs too adult, well, no one can be blame if they feel that it was just a little too much.
They are fiction characters for a reason. Characters are idealized, to the point to be put in pedestals. They became perfect in our minds. However, when fiction characters got too real, too human, they stopped to be characters and become people. So, you have to ask yourself if you really want to read about people or fiction characters. It turns everything contrariwise. Make love, not war. View all 10 comments. Dec 20, Warwick rated it really liked it Shelves: Pornography, according to John Soltenberg, tells lies about women but the truth about men.
But is that because the genre's inherently flawed, or just because everyone who makes it is so mediocre? Lost Girls is certainly an effort to say something truthful about women — as well as about men, adolescence, fantasy, freedom and common sense — but it takes you a fair while to get over the sheer chutzpah of using porn to do it. Is it…is it sexy? The premise is an interesting Pornography, according to John Soltenberg, tells lies about women but the truth about men. The premise is an interesting, almost Stoppardian, one. Three girls from classic children's stories — Wendy from Peter Pan , Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz , and Alice, of Wonderland fame — meet by chance as grown women, in a Vienna hotel in As they tell each other their stories, their childhood adventures are re-imagined as sexual coming-of-age tales, which all three of them find they still have to come to terms with in some way.
Uncharitably, you could say this is a relatively flimsy excuse for three volumes of hardcore sex. Or you could find yourself wanting to cheer about the fact that someone's taking pornography and trying to do something interesting with it. And if this does have artistic merit which it does by the way — in spades , does that make it somehow not-porn? Moore and Gebbie seem to have tried to stop anyone thinking of this as anything less: They aren't just dipping their toes in here, playing with some of the conventions.
This is out-and-out porn. It's like they've rolled their sleeves up, and taken on every stereotype they could think of. We have boy-girl sex, boy-boy sex, girl-girl -girl-girl-girl! Sex in vast, pullulating groups. How much any of this turns you on will depend on where your tastes lie, but anyway turning you on isn't necessarily a high priority of Lost Girls. Working out what the priority is exactly is one of the many pleasures to be had here. The systematic way all of these set-ups are worked through in the book makes it seem almost parodic at times; but some serious effort is also being made to work out what artistic effect can be drawn out of a famously un-artistic genre.
Visually, it looks stunning. Gebbie has gone to town in the most incredible way with the period, creating sexy Matisse take-offs, Victorian erotica imitations, parodies of Schiele and Beardsley, and erotic references to the original illustrations associated with these characters. All of this works well with Moore's approach to the material, which is to reinterpret the fairy tales as parables for adolescent sexuality.
So the Lost Boys from Peter Pan represent a rich girl's view of the unbridled lust of the working classes; the wonderful wizard of Oz who of course turned out to be a foolish old man here becomes an examination of how a daughter outgrows her psychological attraction to her father. The wish to make all this fucking somehow more meaningful sometimes leads to some fairly ridiculous prose.
Here's Alice describing an encounter during the famous first night of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring: I lanced my tongue in Mrs. Potter's anus, up and fast between the tropic lips into her beast-peach hole. Crowned hot with bronze, American girl heat rubbed shameless as a cat against my thigh. The smash of wet cymbals inside me as the maid surrendered to the sacrifice. It's like a letter to Penthouse written by Sir Walter Scott. And the sex itself, however beautifully drawn, can get a bit fatiguing after three volumes of it.
But that aside, you have to give Lost Girls full marks for ambition. Time and again it deliberately throws up challenges to you as a reader, prompting you to question every response you have to the material. Wendy, for instance, worries about the incest which characterises a book they're reading: Perhaps some people might find that disingenuous, but I thought for the most part it was a rare blast of common sense.
Moore also makes the most of the historical context. As well as Stravinsky, we have references to Freud whose ideas are important to the book , and the imminent war is also significant. At the end of volume three, Moore shows us the trenches, and the stupidity of vilifying sex as compared to violence is left hanging with devastating effect. Particularly notable is the absence, or at any rate the dismissal, of the guilt which is such a conspicuous aspect of American treatments of sexuality these days.
Wendy's story is particularly satisfying from this point of view. When he finally confronts her in reality, she's initially terrified. But the downfall of Hook in the original story is here transformed into a kind of triumphant moment of self-acceptance on the part of his intended victim, as she stops running and turns on him: I could think about what I liked. That didn't mean I wanted it to really happen to me. That didn't mean that anyone could force it on me. The Soltenberg quote I opened with has the following subtext: This is also the subtext of everything else anyone ever says about it.
And if the subject matter bothers you, just remember: Rougeur, as he's being acrobatically fellated: View all 14 comments. Aug 29, James rated it really liked it. Mar 12, Alex rated it did not like it Shelves: We get it, Alan. You're a total radical. I'm not shocked by this book, I'm just sortof bored by it. In case you don't know what this is: You were surprised, consternated and a little curious, right?
That's what Moore wants you to feel! That's why he did it! He's just fucking with you. You know who writes lesbian sex scenes between Alice and Dorothy? Because ninth gr We get it, Alan. Because ninth grade boys are lame. View all 13 comments. Jul 18, Grace rated it it was ok. I am no shrinking violet or prude. And I love a good comic book as well as a well written spin on a fairy tale. What a fascinating idea! Sadly, the reality did not live up to my expectations. I received all 3 volumes via Inter-library loan, and read the first one in its entirety.
By the time I got halfway throu I am no shrinking violet or prude. By the time I got halfway through the second volume, I had to close the book and quit. There are only so many ways one can have sex in a plotline before it gets repetitive. Not to mention that it seemed like all 3 of the women's first sexual experiences their "supernatural" experiences were all explained as being their first sexual experience instead Dorothy going to Oz was actually her first time masturbating, etc were deviant or scarring. I won't go into details. Yes, naughty sex can be arousing, but it seemed like everything was in there for mere shock value.
This book avoids receiving a rating of 1 because it WAS rather creative the ways in which Moore changed the original stories to make them sexual. And the illustration styles, especially the segments showing the book of erotica that the characters in the story are reading, can be delightful.
But I definitely don't recommend it. Jan 10, Brian rated it it was ok Shelves: I really wanted to like Lost Girls , in no small part because I love Alan Moore's superhero deconstruction and I'm an admirer of the comic world's ballsiest writer. But in truth, these books are filth, and no amount of sacrificing to Glycon is going to change that Now hold onto your horse bestiality. I'm not one to blush. I'm not saying that these books are garbage because they include more genitalia per page than words.
I'm fine with that, so long as the works stands.. But I really wanted to like Lost Girls , in no small part because I love Alan Moore's superhero deconstruction and I'm an admirer of the comic world's ballsiest writer. At it's core, "Lost Girls" re-examines the "Big Three" of the childhood fantasies from the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. Baum, Barrie, and Carroll - if ever there was a more interesting group to trade dirty jokes with, I doubt you'd find it.
Nobody could find sturdy ground from which to argue that these works are not laden with beaucoup sexual undertones, and for Moore to "go the distance" is an interesting and welcome take on the source material. But here's where it all goes Humpty Dumpty. Moore and Gebbie are so intent on their re-envisioning that they commit the unforgivable sin of adaptation: And the heart of these works is fantasy.
It's escapism and adventure, magic and mystery. Are there all sorts of ways you could draw in parallels between these elements and the sexual awakenings of the characters? Would that make an awesome story? All that's left are some clever associations and unexpected twists on familiar personages Captain Hook, Tinker Bell, Scarecrow, etc.
It's ironic, because Moore is a "ceremonial magician" whatever that means and so he should have enough respect for magic to leave it in when it works! He should have some inkling that to remove the wuzzy line between fantasy and sex and attribute the entirety of the exotic adventure in these wonderful stories to puberty-flamed dreaming is just not doing your predecessors justice. Yes, sex and fantasy are eager bedfellows. Yes, you can talk about sex fueling fantasy.
No, they are not totally interchangeable. The art earns my particular scorn, mostly because it needed to be something extraordinary, a perfect blend of styles that left you unsure where the fantasy was going to take you. Ya know, like a sexual awakening? How about letting the art inform the themes?
I found it offensive, not because of what it depicted, but of how and why. I do agree with some of the opinions of other reviewers that there was "too much porn". I think Moore could have nailed this with a little more restraint - a little more care for when a scene calls for a phallus, and when it doesn't. I was disappointed with this series. Moore has been very vocal about elevating pornography in the public estimation; moving into an era when porn is a legitimate art. I'm willing to entertain that notion, but "Lost Girls" is an argument in the wrong direction.
It leaves porn right where it found it, which is to say the Victorian gutter. May 09, Sophia rated it liked it Shelves: Sadly, a bit of a disappointment -- some of the art is beautiful, and I enjoyed some of the story, but overall it's a too much porn, b porn which doesn't really appeal to my sensibilities for the most part, and c kind of sad to see all the magic of these girls' stories taken out and replaced with sex. I initially thought that sex would just be included, but, despite the cleverness of some of the shifts Captain Hook is a dirty old man who spies on the Lost Boys' debauchery in the park?
Recognizing the thread of sexuality interwoven with these classic stories of lifechanging adventures for innocent girls on the cusp of adolescence is one thing, but taking away all the magic just sort of make the stories ordinary and uninteresting. I don't always find my life story within the pages of fiction but there are three occasions when I did, and Alan Moore's graphic novel erotica Lost Girls was one of them. This was quite a peculiar work as a whole, considering Melinda Gebbie's candy-colored illustrations could easily be a part of a children's book; but I suppose this choice of art style was deliberate because Moore's sensuous writings on sexuality and hedonism were deeply contrasted yet incredibly enhanced by Gebbie's art.
It also I don't always find my life story within the pages of fiction but there are three occasions when I did, and Alan Moore's graphic novel erotica Lost Girls was one of them. It also seemed only appropriate to use such an art style, considering Moore used three of the most famous and well-loved child heroines in fiction: With these recognizable characters, Moore weaved a trinity of intricate expositions; where each of his heroine shares her most heated encounters, most depraved indulgences and most mournful losses in the course of their childhood, adolescence and adulthood.
There have been analyses on the thematic and psychological aspects of Lost Girls that I've read online. Another drew comparisons between Dionysian and Apollonian and its dichotomy present in the characters. But my review will not touch upon that because I can't claim that I have an expert knowledge on such subjects but I am more than willing to write an academic paper about Lost Girls someday.
Like most of Moore's work, Lost Girls is intellectually stimulating and written with layers of symbols and interpretations which makes it an irresistible literary piece to analyze for someone like me, and an enjoyable if not quite arousing read for a casual reader. The idea that child heroines from stories we grew up in are interpreted and portrayed as sexually engrossing vixens who engage in various roleplays as freely as they wish sounds like a bad fanfiction for deviants and perverts, but Moore's caliber as a writer makes his versions of Alice, Wendy and Dorothy more than just desirable in flesh.
He used their sexual escapades as a piercing examination of their damaged or repressed psyches. Therein lies the eroticism of Lost Girls. It not only engages our senses but also our minds and spirits. The story was set in a hotel where these three women are staying in.
The deliberate depiction of the place that somewhat resembles a doll house is yet another symbolic visual that emphasizes Dorothy, Wendy and Alice's youth as readers are taken into their respective accounts of their very early sexual awakenings. We get to know Dorothy first, in all her fiery, passionate and self-indulgent encounters with suitors and her own kin, and we cannot look away because they are exciting tales of lust and taboo relations. Truly, Dorothy's ready availability and omnisexual inclinations are the most obvious depictions of graphic sex.
Her purpose in the narrative is to embody raw and unadulterated sexual energy. Her panels are sunny and wide in length, emphasizing her larger-than-life personality and the warmth of her supposedly normal home life. Meanwhile, as a grown woman, Wendy's repressed sexuality represent her stifling Victorian upbringing. But long ago, she encountered the boy-prostitute Peter and his sister Tinkerbell when she was only twelve years old and was fascinated by his exploits and he then invited her and her brothers to play with them.
While indulging in their afternoon delights, they are stalked by the deviant Hook who forcibly tries to take Wendy for himself but fails. She and Peter drifted away afterwards, and Wendy then learned to suppress her carnal desires, seemingly cold and aloof with her husband who is at least ten years her senior.
Wendy's secrets are revealed when she stumbled upon a tryst between two women. One of them was Dorothy, and the other was a woman in her fifties but a shrewd and imposing elegant figure. Her name is Alice Fairchild, and she easily seduced the vibrant Dorothy as she also challenged Wendy to come out of her shell. Alice was molested by a man she called the White Rabbit, and to recover from the trauma of that abuse, she began to disassociate her sexual core with that of her rational mind, dividing herself into who she is as a person of flesh and the girl she sees in mirrors--her darker reflections.
Alice attended an all girls' boarding schools and started engaging with other girls until she met an older woman who emulates the Queen of Hearts and under her tutelage, Alice embarked on orgies among several types of women. Her lesbianism might be a by-product of her sexual abuse in the hands of a man, but Alice's orientation and preference towards the fairer sex is a narcissistic release; she loved herself above anything else but could not heal properly because of the trauma of her earlier sexual experience.
She began to see men as creatures to fear and be disgusted with, all the while being oppressed by women who have used her in terrifying ways. Once Alice freed herself from these clutches, she in return and with Dorothy's assistance was able to set Wendy free from her own prison. As a queer woman myself, I related very strongly to Alice. Her sexual exploration was the most intimate and self-centered, and I find myself both heartbroken and aroused by her experiences. Her panels are oval mirrors you can gaze into--an echo to the original Caroll stories--and they reflect nothing but the ugly truth.
The last few pages of the three of them finally able to embrace and recover from the mistakes of their girlhood were astounding. Once the afterglow spell was broken, the three women have transformed into transcendental beings. Dorothy can go back to enjoying the pleasures of her future encounters with men, Wendy will now be able to fully give herself to someone who deserves her passions, and Alice can continue experimenting without losing portions of herself in the process. This ending is my own interpretation for Lost Girls remains ambiguous to the very end.
Nevertheless, it is a searing look at female consciousness and sexuality, and I highly recommend this because it's also an eye-opener and a decadent story that will surely stimulate your other parts as well. View all 6 comments. Dec 13, I felt this book crossed that line in many ways and not only abused the concept of eroti Blair wrote: I felt this book crossed that line in many ways and not only abused the concept of erotica but absolutely butchered his respectability. I respectfully disagree with it, however. Have a wonderful day. Nov 02, James Payne rated it it was amazing Shelves: This seems to validate P.
I feel attuned to this disjunction in leftist rhetoric since many people in my social circles have espoused one framework or another, sometimes at the same time. Maybe they're eternal complements in a way beyond my understanding - I, too, feel both. Moore is good at narrativizing coping mechanisms for traumatic sexual experience, for example Alice's disassociation and fixation on her childhood appearance, or Wendy's absolute repression of her sex drive, in fear of going back into the street-sex Spinney.
In my late-teens and early twenties, I often argued for sex as a freeing act, and as an experience that can bring people closer together, probably in retaliation for a sexually repressed upbringing. As I get into my late-twenties, I am beginning to see relational and behavioral cycles emerge in myself and my friends that I was too ideological and naive to understand or accept previously.
Seeing repeated traumas - a big part of Lost Girls, ad nauseum really - or repeating dysfunctional relationship models learned in childhood, has changed my opinion on the pure utopian potentialities of sex. I'm no longer stridently in favor of sex: That might seem obvious, but I've never been good at seeing grey. I had the fortune to not be forced into patterns of sex until I was ready to be, which many people do not. But it's a metaphor that is beaten over your head with foreshadowing "Seems an Archduke is in town Jul 29, Jerry Jose rated it it was ok. For no reason whatsoever, at least none that I can comprehend, the story of Lost Girls is set in and around an Austrian Hotel, next to one of the most iconic event of 20th century — Gavrilo Princip taking out the Archduke Ferdinand.
Maybe an inside joke on people who say, these things doesn't demand a compelling premise. Plot follows, explicitly and quite graphically, the sexual adventures and experiments of fictional versions of three already fictional female characters- Alice, D Basically porn. Plot follows, explicitly and quite graphically, the sexual adventures and experiments of fictional versions of three already fictional female characters- Alice, Dorothy and Wendy Alice in Wonderland, Wizard of the Oz and Peter Pan respectively. Story line is more or less a sharing activity in retrospection, by their adult selves, at the wake of WW1, aided with artful renderings of their past adventures.
Narrative is layered, with definitive visual layout and writing elements for each character. For example, through most of the first book, Alice story line was represented via the looking glass, woods and her shoes were a recurring theme for Dorothy and for Wendy, everything around her were a bit Victorian.
Also their first encounter with adventure was interpreted as their sexual awakening. And, in its entirety, art is not the kind that our teenage self would have loved a peek, or adult self would find erotic though, many are , but the kind that exhausts you as a reader. Its unapologetically provocative, artistic and didactic, but the prolifically barely complimented book's plot.
I put genuine effort in understanding the nuances in book 1, but by the next installment, the graphic nature transformed my reading into skimping and eventually skipping. By the last book, so called plot felt more like an excuse to slide show the remaining erotic sketches, that Moore and Gebbie had already crafted. View all 4 comments. Sep 23, Huan-hua rated it liked it Recommends it for: This review has been hidden because it contains spoilers.
To view it, click here. I read an excerpt from this Dorothy's first Oz story in a comics class in college, and thought it was great. But when I picked up the entire 3-volume set from the library and read it through for the first time, I realized that the story chosen was one of the more subtle and skillful parts of this collection. The reframing of these stories in a sexual context really started to feel ham-handed after a wh "I know it when I see it"--this could equally well be said of this piece as porn and as art.
The reframing of these stories in a sexual context really started to feel ham-handed after a while. It was definitely interesting overall, though, if you can get past the total, numbing overload of taboo sex, and if you have enough of a grounding in art history to appreciate the visual allusions Gebbie makes along the way to Beardsley, Schiele, Matisse, and the literary allusions in the Hotel Himmelgarten's White Book I don't have enough background to pick up on every allusion, though, honestly. Two interesting points stuck in my mind after reading this: I found this repellent yet thought-provoking in the larger context.
I've been thinking about the layers of symbolism aside from the question it brings up about obscenity--why sex is considered a worse taboo than violence. Is it the final self-acceptance and flowering of the sexuality of the Lost Girls against the backdrop of the Great War? There are the three female main characters and their "we don't need a man! Then there's the opium smoked by Alice and Dorothy, and the significance of the poppies in Dorothy's past.
Anyway, it's an interesting read overall, but I definitely wouldn't recommend it over Watchmen Jul 23, Vanessa rated it liked it. It has taken me a while to write this review, because it has taken me a while to figure out how I felt about Lost Girls. My rating of three stars is a compromise between two factors: For the years of thought and effort Alan Moore and Melinda Gebbe put into this opus, I felt they deserved four and in places, five stars; however, my enjoyment of the work only merited two and in places, one or zero stars.
As anyone who has an interest in this work will know, it is a pornographic re-telling of the stories of three famous ladies of literature: I thought the stories of Dorothy and Wendy were well done and in places quite clever. However, I found the story of Alice to be extremely long and tedious by contrast. In fact, boredom was my almost constant companion while reading of the numerous random couplings and orgies filling the pages, though in one section, illustrated in an Aubrey Beardsley style, boredom was kicked out by utter revulsion.
From a purely personal perspective I cannot recommend it, but neither would I dissuade the curious from reading it. Not unlike intimate activities between consenting adults, this book is something about which each individual should make up their own mind. View all 3 comments. Jul 02, Justin rated it it was amazing.
If you're not at all a prude in any way shape or form then you might enjoy this book. Instead of "book" in the last sentence, I accidently wrote "movie. Maybe that it was so well done that it was almost a cinematic experience? I read this over the span of 3 days so I wouldnt get burnt out on it and I think that was a wise choice. At times I sat reading this oblvious to the world. I finished it a few minutes ago and I'm still kind of lost in the experience, If you're not at all a prude in any way shape or form then you might enjoy this book.
I finished it a few minutes ago and I'm still kind of lost in the experience, digesting the various moral and immoral messages. Yes there are a lot of boobs and vaginas and wangs and taboo sexual scenarios hence you shouldn't be a prude while reading it or else you will eschew it but I would say that I didn't get aroused as much as I thought I would. I think because the book was less pornography but more literary. The real delight were the interpretations of the characters adventures Alice and twiddle-dee and dum, Dorothy and the Tin Man, Wendy and Capt.
It was brilliant like many things Alan Moore does. While I dont like to deify him or others, he and the artist masterfully walked the fine line of obscenity and art and came out the otherside Aside from the content, the books were beautifully put together with excellent paper stock and with an amazing slip cover. Jul 22, Punk rated it it was ok Shelves: Alice, Dorothy, and Wendy meet up in a hotel in Austria prior to WWI, have a lot of sex, and recount their experiences as children, but instead of the stories we're familiar with, we get a sexually skewed version of events.
I just don't know what to think of this. For now, my thoughts during the final volume: God, not more sex. I am so bored. Yes, yes, more cunnilingus, whatever. Yes, we all have strap-ons. Yes, Alice, someone's fingering y Graphic Novel, literally. Yes, Alice, someone's fingering you, please stop interrupting yourself to be surprised about that. Nice hot pink pirate pants, Wendy. God, this is boring. Is it over yet? Good thing I took German in college. Wait, who's this dead dude? The writing was kind of awful, full of egregious puns and heavily didactic in places, but I liked most of the art, especially the way it changed to reflect each girl's story; I absolutely loved the shadows and silhouettes in Wendy's tales.
The main concept of the book the girls' stories rewritten as their sexual awakening was promising, but there's a lot of chaff in here; the framing devices -- the hotel, the pornographic White Book, various people's correspondence -- are tiresome, and all the boring, repetitive sex the women have is, you guessed it, boring and repetitive. I might have liked their stories more if they weren't surrounded by so much proselytizing and random Stravinsky. The sex is only occasionally sexy and I didn't care about any of the characters. I don't know what Moore was shooting for beyond the obvious message that pornography shouldn't be subject to moral judgment , but that probably wasn't it.
Sep 22, Cerebralsubversionyahoo. Reading some other folks reviews of this made me kind of realize just how important this type of literature is.
It’s Easy To Identify A Slut
First of all, it's not porn, it's an attempt to tell a story that revolves around sex rather than violence. Last time I checked, violence is illegal and everyone has sex. And yet every kid in America witnesses something like , simulated murders on television by the time they're I didn't once have the urge to jerk off while reading this.
It maybe got me kind of hot to watch ac Reading some other folks reviews of this made me kind of realize just how important this type of literature is. It maybe got me kind of hot to watch actual porn or fuck my wife on a few occasions. Anyway, the first two books were amusing but somewhat tame and then in the third book he goes completely off the deep end, which I'll have to admit, I didn't see coming at all.
Sister fucking, brother fucking, mother fucking, father fucking, bisexual opium whoring, pegging? Yeah, it's all covered. I kind of wondered where in God's name he was going with that, but it all wrapped up well. The point he was trying to make as far as I can tell is that even our darkest, weirdest, and creepiest consensual sexual fantasies are less disturbing and destructive than our mildest of violent ones.
I'm not sure if there's a more important point that can be made in our world today. The fact that it offended so many people here or turned them away from it kind of just proves that point. People getting their heads blown off would be fine, but you know, how dare make your story revolve around sex. It was supposed to weird you out a bit and in doing so make you question: Aug 07, Vanessa Wu rated it it was amazing. I have just remembered that I promised to write a review of this in my review of 25, Years of Erotic Freedom.
This book moves me in a very personal way. I see it as a love story between Melinda who drew the pictures and Alan who wrote the plot. I think the collaborative effort was far-reaching and I wonder at it every time I pick up one of the three volumes that make up this amazing book. I don't know if they are still together but I certainly hope they are. What a beautiful gift to the wor I have just remembered that I promised to write a review of this in my review of 25, Years of Erotic Freedom.
What a beautiful gift to the world their love has produced. Blah blah controversial blah. There are loads of other reviews in which you can read about that aspect of Lost Girls. Very late to the party here — quite a few friends had copies years ago, but as with Alan Moore comics in general, people were reluctant to lend them to anyone. I later became wary of it because technically some of the Blah blah controversial blah.
And this graphic novel is silly like porn is silly it does deliberately identify itself as porn: The idea of Captain Hook as a flasher and sex offender also fitted very well. Though the story could have done with Tiger Lily as a real character, not just a dress-up costume. Sex is often liberating in Lost Girls , but not always; it's still a somewhat complicated force.
In the case of the main characters it creates possible interpretations of all of them as victims, which is unwelcome, and which seems antithetical to the sex-positive ideals of the book. Several of the storylines would have worked just as well — better to some of us - if characters had been unrelated, or just cousins which would have been quite common at that time e.