You should move to Haiti; apparently witchcraft is big there. Professor Ernst has repeatedly demonstrated that those who persist with ad hominem attacks do so because they lack solid evidence to back their claims, and they abjectly refuse to entertain the notion that they are mistaken in their beliefs — even when presented with overwhelming empirical evidence to the contrary. It does not exist. First proposition seems more correct. If the effect are measurable why no one is able to do so? But weather does exist, it is not a belief system.
But the term that the therapy is named after certainly is. Again, Alan was asking about the specific energy, not the therapy. Using empty space therapeutically is a different issue. And defining the term if far from being sidetracked into pointless meta-discussion. Let me try to make this clear: But, until we have a some kind of idea how it could be measured, all those other things are moot. If you want to believe that vacuum, atmospheric pressure, and electric potential energy all would be considered reiki are unmeasureable mystical forces…so be it. Until you understand the term that the therapy appropriated, all other things are moot.
Quark, you are wasting your time debating jm. To think of jm as a supporter of pseudoscience would be a category error: One can point out that it violated what then was considered common sense and existing experience with and knowledge of medicine to suggest that citrus juice might treat or cure scurvy, or that ulcers were caused by bacteria, not stomach acid.
Reiki: neither plausible, nor effective, nor harmless
Those are the facts. Unfortunately, the studies have been done… done well enough and extensively enough that there is no reason what so ever to repeat them or do more, in the case of homeopathy, Reiki, and nearly all of acupuncture as well. And that to this day we have no idea how inhalational anesthetics work, even tho we know they DO work and know a great deal about how to use them. What a silly discussion. Just like other popular fabulations. They earn money by putting the ideas into other peoples heads, thereby channeling and propagating the illusion. And how this would be therapeuthic in any way?
And how could we use them? Because human body is far from an empty space. Her love of free space was its ability to transfer electromagnetic energy so effectively, making a wonderful canvas for study. My personal favoite is vacuum. Some people consider quantum fluctuation to be an inherent aspect of free space. Regardless, the electromagnetic potential of free space reiki at least includes vacuum, atmospheric pressure, electric potential energy.
The current thinking is that the space between the nucleus and electrons is empty. Not without sounding incredibly superstitious or unscientific anyway. Not even Reiki-practitioners understand what it is. You should correct the wikipedia page. See the difference there? One includes vacuum, atmospheric pressure, electric potential energy, etc.
The other one is an unproven therapy. My interest in rei ki ling qi, in Chinese has nothing to do with Reiki. But I thought I could answer the first part of the question for you. And I did, several times.
Silly me, I thought you genuinely wanted to know. As for part 2 of your question…again, I have no idea. As Tom Kennedy explained: In 21st Century science and medicine these concepts are, at best, total utter bollocks, but anti-science promulgators, such as yourself, still bandy around these terms in the pretence that they are still valid. The ONLY thing you seem to understand is how to repeatedly use variations of the weasel words: Pete, you mean this question: I thought I was pretty clear that I have no idea how or if Reiki works.
Perhaps in your superstitious, fundamentalist fervor you missed that. Your invocation of quantum in the comments demonstrates just how desperate you are to believe in magic. The logical process runs something like this: I want magic to exist. Therefore, quantum could mean magic exists. I made it more than abundantly clear on 15 April at So now reiki include electromagnetic potential?
You should be more accurate because this is nonsense. Ok there you are just all dreaming.
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The atoms of our matter interact with each other, right? A description of physical forces in nature? Which forces for Feynman sake? Now it can describe all the physical forces? Such wasted time from Einstein and other! Just give a definition of reiki already, instead of mumbo jumboing things with each other, learn the definition of term and then write something understandable please. So, is there still no one who can answer my simple question: What value is measured when reiki energy is measured?
Electromagnetism, strong and weak interaction. The term comes from a culture that focuses on function and relationship over measurement. So rei ki or ling qi also would include the qualities of empty space like vacuum.
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Anything inherent to empty space that can evoke change. If you create a vacuum and attach the coffee cup to yourself, the vacuum quality of the empty space would also be considered rei ki. How does Reiki the treatment work? According to my understanding, well conducted placebo controlled trials of Reiki show that it works no better than placebo. What is being compared is Reiki versus sham Reiki the placebo. Another way of putting this is that the comparison is between:. Reiki, including rei ki energy. The results strongly indicate that the treatment is no better than the placebo therefore logic forces me to conclude that rei ki plays an insignificant part in the Reiki treatment process.
In the case of Reiki, we find that rei ki seems to be the explanation. Invoking rei ki as the explanation leaves us with the huge problem of not having begun to explain how the sham Reiki works. Other skeptics might reasonably accuse us of invoking magic as the explanation. We must instead explain why and how the placebo of sham Reiki works. So this is a very feable attempt to justifiy your lack of precision. Oh… like two hundred years ago. And i would say that magnestim was known from ancient greek so lot more than that. What are you saying, those forces are not related to empty space… They related to force carriers, you know: People spend hundred of years to define words in physics so everyone can understand each other: You will kill me of boredom.
I understand that measurement embarass you, because it mean progress and reproductibility, two things that reiki is stranger to. You are saying that reiki is too mysterious to be measured? An energy is an energy, difference in energy quantity can be measured today even if you seems to be blocked to one thousand years ago, i swear this possible. As i understand it might be because this energy is too mysterious to be seen!
Some error in english, sorry I get hard time on my phone. I still more understantable than reiki. And I answered him. He claimed not to understand, and asked the same question. So I reworded the answer. This happened several times. But if you look at my first answer to Alan, it answers the first part of your question:. And if you think you have already done that, you have plainly not understood this simple — and it would seem, revealing — question.
Unless someone other than jm can both understand what I am asking and try to provide an answer? So while waiting for someone who understands your question and has an answer, answer mine: You clearly did not understand the question as evidenced by your forays into a plethora of irrelevances and I doubt you do yet. I always want to know what is the link with the quantum fluctuation that you mentioned before and how rei can happen in human body, human body that have no empty space in physics meaning of the word.
Anyway here we go again to the: I also think that progress is made by trying to understand what people thousands of years ago were observing, rather than just dismissing it outright. Nothing is dismissed outright in science, there is always a man waiting to prove you that you are wrong.
Science is the only matter where you can be right or wrong because of the experiment telling you the thruth. The rest of it certainly is quite convoluted, my apologies. One last attempt, though. I have a friend who gets a bit irritated when people use the word electricity. For specifics, there are other terms. Since you do seem to be physics articulate, I have a question for you. We were talking about free space in the body. This is from a site on very basic physics http: In fact, the wave-functions for electrons in s-orbitals about a nucleus actually extend all the way down into the nucleus itself.
In quantum field theory we would say that these particles are constantly exchanging photons in the case of electromagnetism or heavy gauge bosons in the case of the weak force. While a very basic write-up, what is being described would be called rei ki. In your opinion, how accurate is their write-up? And, thanks for any help with this. There is no empty space between atom in matter because of very, very powerful electromagnetic fields, fields able to deviate a lot of radiations type and able to prevent matter from collapsing and preventing you to go through without hurting yourself.
Then if rei ki is more about EM particles interactions like i supposed here: An excited state is any state with energy greater than the ground state. The ground state of a quantum field theory is usually called the vacuum state or the vacuum. Generally, it contains no physical particles. If wikipedia is accurate, empty is ground state, ground state is lowest energy state, lowest energy state is also called vacuum state. I would say because there is no eletromagnetic potential in quantic vacuum. You have to understand that quantic vacuum is complicated and got a long history.
Some speak about quantic fluctuation of empty space provoked by the fact of delat0 , and EM field of empty space, but this more an artifact coming from perturbative method of calculus used in quantum fields theory qft.
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Hi Quark, thanks for taking the time to explain all of this — I truly appreciate it. That space is occupied by either particle or field. I think a couple thousand years ago, the sub atomic world would have been in the realm of the mystical, but not so much anymore. Light propagate in free space because there is an EM field to interact with light, but before the light propagate, is there a field?
As far as lingqi rei ki goes, it would be much closer to the world of quantic phenomenum interactions than medicine — but still bullshit. As does the practice of Reiki. Trying to analyze the spiritual world with modern medicine or modern physics is far beyond bullshit. Here is a Google Image link to some: Clearly the founders of Reiki did much clinical research to determine that these symbols work best in accessing and transmitting the Universal Ki. It is used in chemistry to describe a gas as in Oxygen Qi, Nitrogen Qi.
Since this is Universal Qi, you can capture it by cooking rice in outer space. The rabbit on the moon must do this a lot when he gets hungry after compounding the pill of immortality. While I think it is worth debunking, endlessly arguing with True Believers is, well, endless…. Ki , vital energy. With historical records dating from the seventh century, Shinto folklore and mythology has led to a range of religious practices associated with nature and today is often combined with Buddhist ancestor worship.
Shinto; Way of the Gods from Chinese: The details of the origin of Reiki are shrouded in mystery and have resulted in some dispute, perhaps from an enthusiasm to make it more appealing in the West. In Usui encountered financial problems with his businesses, stepped back and took a twenty one day Buddist training course at a mountain retreat. This involved prayer, fasting and meditation. At the retreat Usui had a mystical revelation which empowered him with energy and enabled him to develop his Reiki Ryoho Gakkai Spiritual Energy Therapy Society.
It is pure spiritual energy which does not exist save in the minds of those who imagive it does. It does not exist in the real, substantive, immanent world — it, and other CAM energies, innate intellegence, meridians, chi, etc. I call the path to wellbeing followed by their committed adherents Wudo. Just as practitioners of judo are judoka, so followers of wudo are wudoka Japanese: Mikao Usui appropriated the term for his practice, he did not invent the term. Not if he was born in , anyway. Do you have any evidence? Mikao Usui devised the term reiki. The practice of reiki is dangerous.
Your comprehension skills are failing you again. However, this is still a million miles away from discussing so-called reiki healing. Unfortunately, it would appear that it might not be harmless. That, combined with the fact there also appears to be no good evidence of any specific benefit, seals its fate. The only thing that truly frightens me is his gloating over how easy it is to indoctrinate children to perform torture in the name of healing that, in reality, neither cures nor identifies any known illness.
What is "Western Reiki"?
This is so disgusting that I cannot think of a suitable phrase to describe it. Fortunately for so many of us, the dedication of Professor Ernst goes a very long way to protect us from these insidious creeps of quackery. We can knead the dough with these types ad absurdum, they will never allow themselves to be pulled through the pain and embarrassment against which their cognitive dissonance is holding fort. I have been trying to understand their mindset and find out why they never let go despite hitting them repeatedly over the head with facts and reason.
When money becomes a significant factor in pursuing their chosen quackery cult, as it usually does, they are really beyond help. The unpersuadables are prone to reason in circles in difficult dialogues as we have seen repeated examples of above, but the cognitive dissonance does not allow them to admit any mistakes. Their worst nightmare seems to be not being able to have the last word in a discussion. I think the conclusion must be that you simply cannot and should not try to reason with them.
It may be fun and revealing but the only sensible way seems to be to ignore them altogether i. Explain to them about reality and what is wrong and unreasonable in the rhetoric of the unpersuadables. Maybe we can help some to avoid being scraped, cupped, needled, ear candled or have their vertebral arteries torn for no good reason.
Families all over the world use it, and kids generally learn from their parents. I have absolutely no interest in wounding, embarrassing, etc. Yin yang theory is simply a way of comparing things. There are no side effects, and it would be the rare individual that would opt for treatment of a serious condition solely with Reiki.
I prefer the right tool for the job, and for many things like gua sha, for instance a traditional scientific method of organizing the body is more useful. Different tools for different jobs. Referring to gua sha as torture is very disrespectful to people who have suffered actual torture. Well rei ki have no side effect for sure on body, but it have side effect on money. She was taught that charging money for Reiki or any other healing practice is not only unethical, but has a detrimental effect on the process.
So she had a day job, and practiced Reiki for those in need, for free. Anyone trained in Reiki would know that. Any healing of the body is a side effect. That would be more of an apples to apples comparison. Then again, there are MDs who do a weekend course on acupunture and think they know something about it…and charge money for it. Also probably or hopefully a small percentage of what they do. And they are usually the ones combining Reiki and massage. However, there are many adaptations of Reiki, some use hands-on-healing, others use massage, yet they are all commonly referred to as Reiki.
As with most forms of CAM, Reiki is unregulated or arbitrarily self-regulated therefore no precise definition of the practice exists. Again, I agree with you. The practitioners of adapted Reiki are under no legal or industry regulated obligation to inform potential clients of their methods of practice. And in that case, it certainly is regulated in the US anyway.
All hands on therapies are legally and more important, ethically obligated to inform patients what they are doing. Is this guy not doing reiki then? Perhaps the massage regulatory machine should step in. Oy…surrounded by dangers, I tell ya. And — the person could have stumbled getting off the table! Something really needs to be done about the dangers of Reiki.
I bet there were even viscious kittens off camera. It seems he is doing reiki. Well, the people at reiki. Only one way to tell — contact them and measure it. They probably have a contact form on their site. Or you could accept the fact that there is no one answer for what rei ki is. Doubt that will happen though.
You could use your free time to let wikipedia know that vacuum was not involved in the invention of the light bulb. And there is clearly enough of them to heal your money. As I understand it, the Reiki practitioner acts as a conduit to promote movement of rei ki through someone else. Massage is hands on body work. Healing can be instigated by absolutely anything. Anyone you meet could be a Reiki practitioner…there would be no way for you to know, unless you asked them. And why is that spiritual? And why someone would need that?
What I meant is that someone may have done this work referencing practioners etc.. And after all, who care? So the quack is here, even if they are genuine. This is just basic quack, you create needs need to move your ki or whatever invisble and impossible to demonstrate and provide solution at the same time. Ask rei ki master with money! Absolutely no risk of side effect or anything, just taking money on people gullibility.
They have other jobs too. They consider exchange of money for healing unethical.
For the moment no ONE seems to know what they are exactely doing and for what reason! Well I doubt that.
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Or you are not talking about real medicine doctors retired doctor does not count. And if you are talking about rei ki practionners they are not doctor in anyway, plus you said rei ki is not healing so why would they ask money for that? Although here in the US there are a bunch of mds providing services for free because of our fucked up medical system.
There have been a surprising number who have cut their paid practice way back to have time to care for the underserved, and the ethics conversation has become quite interesting. But…far from the topic of Reiki. As you still have no idea what you are talking about in the context of this blog post despite the elapse of seventeen months since it was posted , the following article well illustrates the abject nonsense of Reiki and the sheer depth of delusion exhibited by Reiki Masters: That would not include things like it costs money, or people will opt for Reiki as their sole therapy for a serious condition.
People spend money on all kinds of weird things. Prove that Reiki is actually more dangerous than aspirin. Show me some real dangers. Something that takes Reiki out of the harmless category. I was kidding when I said the recipient could stumble getting off of the treatment table…but that probably is the biggest danger. But what are the odds of that, really? This would mean that the condition at hand remains untreated which, in a worst case scenario, might even lead to the death of patients.
More important, in my view, is an entirely different risk: Most people who turn to alt-med for treatment are ill, many of them are desperate therefore they are vulnerable members of society. Filling their minds with the mysticism and abject nonsense of Reiki is very likely to undermine their rationality.
Reiki is a process of mystical indoctrination that gives the false hope of improved health and spiritual growth. Clients are encouraged to become students of the master for the purpose of learning how to treat themselves and others. Oh, by the way, Reiki is neither plausible, nor effective, nor harmless. The psychological harm that can and does result from the indoctrination of vulnerable people is a very serious issue.
Again, prove the harmless part. My kitten scenario is speculative too. I have no evidence of kittens waiting to chomp on Reiki treatment table stumblers. The response rate was truly dismal, and it is fair to assume that the non-responding students held even more offensive views on vaccination than their responding colleagues. Positive results from clinical trials of implausible forms of AM are thus either due to chance, bias or must be attributed to more credible causes such as the placebo effect.
The modification of cardiovascular risk factors in rats might be of little relevance for humans. And if that is true for herbal remedies, it might also be the case for other types of alternative medicine. In other words, alternative medicine use might be a marker for poor adherence to prescribed medication. I feel that this hypothesis merits further study. I should stress that we do not know how often such events happen; there is no monitoring system, and one might expect that the vast majority of cases do not get published.
Most consumers who experience such problems, I would guess, are far to embarrassed to admit that they have been taken in by this sort of quackery. So, the HCIS is in excellent company and I have no doubt whatsoever that this new statement is correct — but I also have little doubt that homeopaths will dispute it. My explanation for the observed effects after Gua Sha is quite simple: This hurts quite a bit and distracts you from your headache, perhaps even to such an extend that you do not feel it any more.
As the wound heals, it gets a bit infected and thus hurts for several days; chances are that your headache will be gone for that period of time. Of course, the Gua Sha- effect would be larger because the factors mentioned above exotic treatment, expectation etc. If he ask for money he is pure quack selling nothing but beliefs. That is too easy. People can buy weird things like every new versions of a smartphone , but things that are real. Rei ki is quack because it is not real, this is thievery, rei ki master are just taking money from people in exange of nothing, I call it physcological extortion.
By the way those kinds of lies are dangerous for critical thinking, ethics and morale, but I know that those are not very valuable for most of people. Therefore, Reiki implicitly conveys the following: In the UK, as in many other regions of the world, there exists legislation that specifically addresses advertising to, and working with, vulnerable members of society. Those deemed vulnerable include: Vulnerable members of society are neither required nor even expected to adequately differentiate between explicit and implicit health claims.
Making this differentiation is a high-order cognitive processing task. High-order cognitive tasks are well known for being quickly impaired just by tiredness, let alone the devastating loss of functioning that usually occurs in severe chronic illness and other debilitating circumstances. Some CAM practitioners and CAM apologists attempt to dismiss my comments on this blog by claiming that my comments are just unsubstantiated opinions.
Reiki is the gentle application of universal energy to encourage the body to heal itself and to promote spiritual well-being; Reiki cannot and does not cause any harm. Beware of the Law! Claiming to be a qualified expert who is giving advice to the listener s. The moral of this is simple: Much of the psychological harm caused by the plethora of pre-scientific medical belief systems is documented in the case notes retained by mental healthcare organisations, including the UK NHS and its affiliated providers. This information is used to continuously improve the standard of mental healthcare provided by these organisations.
I do not provide legal or medical advice. My writings are for the sole purpose of helping to protect vulnerable members of society from the harmful effects of quackery. Some readers might be interested to learn that Reiki is nothing other than a Japanese-rooted version of New Age shamanism invented by, and promulgated by, unenlightened shamans: I take it then that you have no proof of Reiki being harmful, since you provide no evidence?
You and a few others should take it to heart. Perhaps I am a Reiki Master! You know that skeptical people just block the rei ki power? So a rei ki master can only prove that rei ki exist to a person that is already convinced. How can a thief can harm people? Do you really need me to draw a picture here? Reiki is a spiritual practice, not a medical one. The medical world has no business, in my opinion, regulating spiritual practice. The religious folk have no business regulating medicine.
But, that group is a small minority. They agree that electromagnetism is qi — but qi includes more. The energy of the highly vocal proponents of this rubbish are comparable to the seriously harmful effects of ionising electromagnetic energy. Precisely, mumbo jumboing people to get money. And as it was said 1 billions times: If rei ki is related to EM in any way we should be able to detect it. Then, by definition this power should be readily measurable. It so happens that I have formal credentials that say I should have the skills and ability to detect, measure, manipulate and use electromagnetic power.
No, Ockhams Razor retains its edge. Reiki is neither electromagnetic nor any other kind of physical power. If it indeed is to be defined as a power then it may well be defined as the power of delusion and mental suggestion. When is this absurd discourse coming to an end? We need room for fruitful dialogues on this site. Is there an OFF button somewhere? I am getting bored and the popcorn is finished. Here is a list starting with Leon Theremin himself, wonderfully performing on his invention.
Many of these performances are a genuine pleasure. You are pretty much right Bjorn, enough words have been wasted! I manage a veterinary cardiology office. This afternoon a woman walked and introduced herself as a certified Reiki Master; she was confident she had services that the practice owner would be interested in. Ignoring her woeful lack of experience working with animals, I asked her to share how this treatment would help our cardiac patients animals. As I explained to her, we have a close relationship with our clients; their own perceptions often color how they feel the pet is doing.
And, atleast in terms of people, is there any difference in the impact of meditation versus Reiki? Let me start at an other point. Everyone is given intuition. Some people have learned to trust it, listen to it, and therefore been able to develop it. That would be imagination, illusion, naivety and just crazy, while being mentally unstable. So they usually have more or less dismissed their intuition and only use their brains.
Nothing wrong with it. So me and many others have learned to trust their intuition. I use it combined with rational thinking to get or decide the best results possible, and this combination has never failed me. This will develop your intuition as well, making you more sensitive. Later on you can also sense the atmosphere in rooms where people were fighting. This will only continue to improve as work with it. Eventually you will also become aware of Reiki, and other energies. Why, because energies possess as what I call frequencies, or vibrations.
Reiki energy is a very pure high energy that is not easy to sense. I know you may now think that I should be hospitalized or that I should check myself at the psychiatrist, but I simply feel that Reiki energy does exist. It is analogous to deaf people or people that are truly colorblind no offence. How would you explain to them what colors or music are?
How would you scientifically prove it to them? Take it or leave it as you please. Be the first to ask a question about Reiki The Second Degree. Lists with This Book. This book is not yet featured on Listopia. Christine Plaisted rated it liked it Sep 23, Steven marked it as to-read May 21, Jennifer Peters marked it as to-read Jul 12, Rivka marked it as to-read Dec 03, Xombiepanda marked it as to-read Dec 08, Lilly marked it as to-read Apr 04, Joy Jensen marked it as to-read Jun 04, Usage of the Master symbol in daily life to enhance your personal growth and awareness, and to enrich your Reiki practise.
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